Prop 8 divides Big Bear Valley

By BRETT CROXTON

Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:02 PM PDT


Proposition 8, which, if passed, would amend the California constitution to ban gay marriage, has sparked heated debates throughout the state and Big Bear Valley. Some newly formed families are stuck in the middle of these debates as churches get involved.

For Alan Lukes, who married his husband David Gurzenski June 28, the debate is rooted in confusion. “People are misguided,” Lukes said. “They’re reacting to the lies on TV. There are two definitions of marriage, and people are confusing the ceremony with the license.”

Lukes said the California Supreme Court decision, which allowed gays to marry, doesn’t force any church to perform gay marriages. It allows gays to receive a marriage license. “Most gay couples who have gotten married since then have done so in front of a Justice of the Peace, not a church,” Lukes said. Lukes and Gurzenski were married at St. Columba’s Episcopal Church on the North Shore.

The idea that if gay marriage stays legal it will be taught in schools also confounds Lukes. “On the commercials they tell you about what happened in Boston,” Lukes said. “Here’s the thing: first of all, that lawsuit was thrown out on the grounds it was frivolous because the school district dealt with it—that teacher was reprimanded and barred from teaching that. Secondly, Massachusetts law is not California law.” Lukes added that California law dictates any student who brings up gay marriage during sex education is instructed by the teacher to discuss it with his or her parents.

Banning gay marriage by adding it to the constitution rather than the family code is another slap in the face, Lukes said. “Be careful on a constitutional amendment,” he said. “You’re not just creating a law—by changing the constitution you’re making it legal to discriminate against a group of people. That’s scary. Where does that end? Are we going to get rid of interracial marriage next? This whole thing boils down to are we going to go backwards or progress forward?”


Big Bear Christian Center pastor Jeff Tunnell said keeping gay marriage on the books poses a bigger problem. “If we allow this to continue, we’re opening a Pandora’s box of problems,” Tunnell said. “Sure, right now it’s one man and one man or a woman and a woman, but what’s next? Polygamy? One man and four children? There are no parameters, it can go anywhere from here.”

For Tunnell, amending the constitution is the right way to change the law. “All the benefits gay people need are in the family code of California with domestic partnerships,” Tunnell said. “We’re putting it back where it needs to be: in the constitution, rather than the family code, where it could be drug through the courts for years.”

Lukes said domestic partnerships don’t give him and his husband the rights they deserve. “A marriage is recognized in all 50 states,” Lukes said. “A partnership isn’t because the definitions and rights that go along with that vary by state.” Lukes pointed to visitation rights, tax differences and residence requirements as some of the many benefits he and his husband would lose if their marriage is dissolved with the passing of Proposition 8.

Tunnell, who along with Calvary Chapel and the First Baptist Church of Big Bear Valley showed a simulcast to parishioners promoting yes on Proposition 8, said swaying votes from the pulpit is acceptable. “It’s fairly common,” he said. “I hope it would be, I have the right to do so. Propositions are fair game—we can’t speak on candidates, but propositions are fair game.”

Tunnell also said, despite his stance on Proposition 8, gays should feel at home in his church. “They’re certainly welcome,” he said. “We have two recovering gay parishioners in our church right now. We believe and teach being gay is not a matter of DNA or birth, it’s a choice, and it can be corrected. People can choose to walk away from that lifestyle.” He added that with a strong support system and a strong spiritual setting, he believes homosexuality can be reversed.

Lukes disagreed fervently. “I believe it’s genetic,” he said. “Why would I choose a lifestyle which would put me at odds with so many people?”


“No on 8” signs such as this one are much less common than the “Yes on 8” signs in Big Bear Valley. (BRETT CROXTON/Big Bear Grizzly)Gurzenski also disagreed with Tunnell. “I used to be married and I have two grown daughters,” he said. “I didn’t wake up one day and decide, hey, I’m gonna be gay today.”

St. Columba’s Father Joe Frazier, who delivered the Eucharist at the Lukes-Gurzenski wedding, said Tunnell’s position is common. “Those churches are culturally and spiritually narrow-minded,” Frazier said. “This is a modern age, there are many kinds of families—not just a man, woman and children. This narrowness of definition makes people fearful of other types of families.”

Frazier said his church is more open to gay parishioners. “We’re rather proud we have such an open view on that idea and such an open church,” he said. “The closed-minded churches take the Bible very literally. We take the Bible seriously, but not literally.”

Valley voter Jim Franklin, a devout Christian, said he’ll vote with Jesus Nov. 4. “In everything I do, whether it’s going to the store or into the voting booth, I think to myself, ‘What would Jesus do?” He said. “Jesus would vote yes on Proposition 8.”

Self-described atheist Mark Clements said he’ll vote to keep the government out of people’s lives. “I don’t want the government getting the idea they can tell me what to do,” Clements said. “If I vote to ban gay marriage, they’ll get that idea.”

For those unsure of how to vote on Proposition 8, Tunnell, Lukes and Frazier have advice.

“Just look at what Jesus said about homosexuality,” Frazier said. “Not a word. Then look at what he said about justice, equality, love and inclusion.”

“Just think about it,” Tunnell said. “Think about what is good for your state and what is good for your country. And remember that marriage is the foundation from which strong societies are built.”

“It’s OK to have religious beliefs,” Lukes said. “Just don’t force them on me. Don’t take away my rights because of your religious beliefs. That’s what World War II was about.”