I never expected Californians to turn our back on our legacy of expanding civil rights and protecting the rights of one another with the passage of Proposition 8. Tuesday night was a night of mixed emotion, as in one moment, we elected Barack Obama, America's first black President, yet in that same moment realized the passage of Proposition 8 seemed all but certain.
These past few days have found me trying to find direction, understanding and insight into what has happened, and how to move forward.
I attended a candlelight vigil on the steps of City Hall in San Francisco Wednesday night, where members of the community had gathered together, to stand up, once more, for equality. As I listened to the speakers analyze the current situation, I felt disheartened that such a thing ever could have happened, let alone, could be happening as I stood there, in silence. I felt powerless, as though I was speaking but could not find my voice. I was handed a candle, and the roundness of the flame seemed small in comparison to the struggle. Over the murmur of the crowd, someone began singing "we shall not be moved", at first a single voice, then another, and then a group. As flame passed from candle to candle, from stranger to neighbor, someone raised their candle above their head, others joined in, and 2,000 tiny lights lifted up for a common purpose. In that moment, I found my voice again, within the community; we all found our voices once more.
And, as we marched through the streets of San Francisco, being joined by others as we went, our voices growing louder, as we moved together in solidarity, I could not help but think how far we have come- how far forward we have moved as a state. In 2000, Proposition 22 passed with nearly 62 percent support, and in 2008, Proposition 8 received 52 percent of the vote. Within just eight years support for banning same-sex marriage has fallen nearly 10 percent in California. In fact, more Californians have already voted against Proposition 8 than ever voted for Proposition 22. So as I marched forward, holding a single flame for civil rights, I was not alone. The 2,000 of us marching for equality, we were not alone. Our 2,000 tiny flames were not the only light shining in the darkness—there with us were the nearly 4.9 million Californians who had stood up to protect our constitution, and the rights of fellow Californians.
The march finished in a rally where we gathered together in the street, chanting and holding our candles, lifting our voices together. We began to chant "Yes We Can, Yes We Can." For though I had never so fully understood the reality of the struggle, I had never been so filled with hope.
As Anne Lamott writes, "Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up." And as I thought of the hope offered by our new President, and his promise of change, never before had those three simple words resonated so deeply within my heart. We had the audacity to hope once, and if Barack Obama could be elected president of the United States, I will dare for an audacious hope once more.
In Solidarity,
Andy
Friday, November 7, 2008
Op-Ed from Human Rights Campaign President Joe Solmonese on Approval of Proposition 8
Dear Suzette,
On Tuesday night, our community felt the emotions of electing a pro-equality President and expanding our numbers in Congress and state houses across the country, but the next morning our hearts were broken as the dust settled and it was clear we lost the marriage ballot measures in California, Florida and Arizona. I will certainly provide you with further insight in the coming days to how we effectively organized and motivated LGBT voters in elections throughout the country, but today, as we find ourselves in this agonizing intersection of victory and defeat, I felt it was important to try and give some perspective about our losses.
I've drafted the following op-ed that I wanted to share with you. I know that mere words aren't enough to provide the salve for our wounds that we desperately need but perhaps they will begin to shape a path for how we move forward. And for those of you who gave your time and resources, your sacrifices were not in vain. You've helped lay the foundation for the victory that will one day be ours. And I thank you.
You can't take this away from me: Proposition 8 broke our hearts, but it did not end our fight.
Like many in our movement, I found myself in Southern California last weekend. There, I had the opportunity to speak with a man who said that Proposition 8 completely changed the way he saw his own neighborhood. Every "Yes on 8" sign was a slap. For this man, for me, for the 18,000 couples who married in California, to LGBT people and the people who love us, its passage was worse than a slap in the face. It was nothing short of heartbreaking.
But it is not the end. Fifty-two percent of the voters of California voted to deny us our equality on Tuesday, but they did not vote our families or the power of our love out of existence; they did not vote us away.
As free and equal human beings, we were born with the right to equal families. The courts did not give us this right—they simply recognized it. And although California has ceased to grant us marriage licenses, our rights are not subject to anyone's approval. We will keep fighting for them. They are as real and as enduring as the love that moves us to form families in the first place. There are many roads to marriage equality, and no single roadblock will prevent us from ultimately getting there.
And yet there is no denying, as we pick ourselves up after losing this most recent, hard-fought battle, that we've been injured, many of us by neighbors who claim to respect us.
By the same token, we know that we are moving in the right direction. In 2000, California voters passed Proposition 22 by a margin of 61.4% to 38.6%. On Tuesday, fully 48% of Californians rejected Proposition 8. It wasn't enough, but it was a massive shift. Nationally, although two other anti-marriage ballot measures won, Connecticut defeated an effort to hold a constitutional convention ending marriage, New York's state legislature gained the seats necessary to consider a marriage law, and FMA architect Marilyn Musgrave lost her seat in Congress. We also elected a president who supports protecting the entire community from discrimination and who opposes discriminatory amendments.
Yet on Proposition 8 we lost at the ballot box, and I think that says something about this middle place where we find ourselves at this moment. In 2003, twelve states still had sodomy laws on the books, and only one state had civil unions. Four years ago, marriage was used to rile up a right-wing base, and we were branded as a bigger threat than terrorism. In 2008, most people know that we are not a threat. Proposition 8 did not result from a popular groundswell of opposition to our rights, but was the work of a small core of people who fought to get it on the ballot. The anti-LGBT message didn't rally people to the polls, but unfortunately when people got to the polls, too many of them had no problem with hurting us. Faced with an economy in turmoil and two wars, most Californians didn't choose the culture war. But faced with the question—brought to them by a small cadre of anti-LGBT hardliners – of whether our families should be treated differently from theirs, too many said yes.
But even before we do the hard work of deconstructing this campaign and readying for the future, it's clear to me that our continuing mandate is to show our neighbors who we are.
Justice Lewis Powell was the swing vote in Bowers, the case that upheld Georgia's sodomy law and that was reversed by Lawrence v. Texas five years ago. When Bowers was pending, Powell told one of his clerks "I don't believe I've ever met a homosexual." Ironically, that clerk was gay, and had never come out to the Justice. A decade later, Powell admitted his vote to uphold Georgia's sodomy law was a mistake.
Everything we've learned points to one simple fact: people who know us are more likely to support our equality.
In recent years, I've been delivering this positive message: tell your story. Share who you are. And in fact, as our families become more familiar, support for us increases. But make no mistake: I do not think we have to audition for equality. Rather, I believe that each and every one of us who has been hurt by this hateful ballot measure, and each and every one of us who is still fighting to be equal, has to confront the neighbors who hurt us. We have to say to the man with the Yes on 8 sign—you disrespected my humanity, and I am not giving you a pass. I am not giving you a pass for explaining that you tolerate me, while at the same time denying that my family has a right to exist. I do not give you permission to say you have me as a "gay friend" when you cast a vote against my family, and my rights.
Wherever you are, tell a neighbor what the California Supreme Court so wisely affirmed: that you are equal, you are human, and that being denied equality harms you materially. Although I, like our whole community, am shaken by Prop 8's passage, I am not yet ready to believe that anyone who knows us as human beings and understands what is at stake would consciously vote to harm us.
This is not over. In California, our legal rights have been lost, but our human rights endure, and we will continue to fight for them.
Warmly,
Joe Solmonese
President, Human Rights Campaign
The Human Rights Campaign Foundation is America’s largest civil rights organization working to achieve gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender equality. By inspiring and engaging all Americans, HRC strives to end discrimination against LGBT citizens and realize a nation that achieves fundamental fairness and equality for all.
On Tuesday night, our community felt the emotions of electing a pro-equality President and expanding our numbers in Congress and state houses across the country, but the next morning our hearts were broken as the dust settled and it was clear we lost the marriage ballot measures in California, Florida and Arizona. I will certainly provide you with further insight in the coming days to how we effectively organized and motivated LGBT voters in elections throughout the country, but today, as we find ourselves in this agonizing intersection of victory and defeat, I felt it was important to try and give some perspective about our losses.
I've drafted the following op-ed that I wanted to share with you. I know that mere words aren't enough to provide the salve for our wounds that we desperately need but perhaps they will begin to shape a path for how we move forward. And for those of you who gave your time and resources, your sacrifices were not in vain. You've helped lay the foundation for the victory that will one day be ours. And I thank you.
You can't take this away from me: Proposition 8 broke our hearts, but it did not end our fight.
Like many in our movement, I found myself in Southern California last weekend. There, I had the opportunity to speak with a man who said that Proposition 8 completely changed the way he saw his own neighborhood. Every "Yes on 8" sign was a slap. For this man, for me, for the 18,000 couples who married in California, to LGBT people and the people who love us, its passage was worse than a slap in the face. It was nothing short of heartbreaking.
But it is not the end. Fifty-two percent of the voters of California voted to deny us our equality on Tuesday, but they did not vote our families or the power of our love out of existence; they did not vote us away.
As free and equal human beings, we were born with the right to equal families. The courts did not give us this right—they simply recognized it. And although California has ceased to grant us marriage licenses, our rights are not subject to anyone's approval. We will keep fighting for them. They are as real and as enduring as the love that moves us to form families in the first place. There are many roads to marriage equality, and no single roadblock will prevent us from ultimately getting there.
And yet there is no denying, as we pick ourselves up after losing this most recent, hard-fought battle, that we've been injured, many of us by neighbors who claim to respect us.
By the same token, we know that we are moving in the right direction. In 2000, California voters passed Proposition 22 by a margin of 61.4% to 38.6%. On Tuesday, fully 48% of Californians rejected Proposition 8. It wasn't enough, but it was a massive shift. Nationally, although two other anti-marriage ballot measures won, Connecticut defeated an effort to hold a constitutional convention ending marriage, New York's state legislature gained the seats necessary to consider a marriage law, and FMA architect Marilyn Musgrave lost her seat in Congress. We also elected a president who supports protecting the entire community from discrimination and who opposes discriminatory amendments.
Yet on Proposition 8 we lost at the ballot box, and I think that says something about this middle place where we find ourselves at this moment. In 2003, twelve states still had sodomy laws on the books, and only one state had civil unions. Four years ago, marriage was used to rile up a right-wing base, and we were branded as a bigger threat than terrorism. In 2008, most people know that we are not a threat. Proposition 8 did not result from a popular groundswell of opposition to our rights, but was the work of a small core of people who fought to get it on the ballot. The anti-LGBT message didn't rally people to the polls, but unfortunately when people got to the polls, too many of them had no problem with hurting us. Faced with an economy in turmoil and two wars, most Californians didn't choose the culture war. But faced with the question—brought to them by a small cadre of anti-LGBT hardliners – of whether our families should be treated differently from theirs, too many said yes.
But even before we do the hard work of deconstructing this campaign and readying for the future, it's clear to me that our continuing mandate is to show our neighbors who we are.
Justice Lewis Powell was the swing vote in Bowers, the case that upheld Georgia's sodomy law and that was reversed by Lawrence v. Texas five years ago. When Bowers was pending, Powell told one of his clerks "I don't believe I've ever met a homosexual." Ironically, that clerk was gay, and had never come out to the Justice. A decade later, Powell admitted his vote to uphold Georgia's sodomy law was a mistake.
Everything we've learned points to one simple fact: people who know us are more likely to support our equality.
In recent years, I've been delivering this positive message: tell your story. Share who you are. And in fact, as our families become more familiar, support for us increases. But make no mistake: I do not think we have to audition for equality. Rather, I believe that each and every one of us who has been hurt by this hateful ballot measure, and each and every one of us who is still fighting to be equal, has to confront the neighbors who hurt us. We have to say to the man with the Yes on 8 sign—you disrespected my humanity, and I am not giving you a pass. I am not giving you a pass for explaining that you tolerate me, while at the same time denying that my family has a right to exist. I do not give you permission to say you have me as a "gay friend" when you cast a vote against my family, and my rights.
Wherever you are, tell a neighbor what the California Supreme Court so wisely affirmed: that you are equal, you are human, and that being denied equality harms you materially. Although I, like our whole community, am shaken by Prop 8's passage, I am not yet ready to believe that anyone who knows us as human beings and understands what is at stake would consciously vote to harm us.
This is not over. In California, our legal rights have been lost, but our human rights endure, and we will continue to fight for them.
Warmly,
Joe Solmonese
President, Human Rights Campaign
The Human Rights Campaign Foundation is America’s largest civil rights organization working to achieve gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender equality. By inspiring and engaging all Americans, HRC strives to end discrimination against LGBT citizens and realize a nation that achieves fundamental fairness and equality for all.
Thursday, November 6, 2008
OC Register Searchable Database for Prop 8 Contributors
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/prop-gay-marriage-2149199-ban-election
How to File an IRS 501(c)(3) Complaint
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (also known as the “Mormon” or LDS Church) has gone too far in promoting the 2008 California Proposition 8, which would claims to amend the California state constitution to define marriage as one man and one woman in order to supersede a state supreme court opinion issued earlier this year. [Whether the proposition was a lawful amendment or a revision that cannot legally be made by a voter initiative remains an open question.]
Section 501(c)(3) of US Code Title 26, which governs tax-exempt organizations, reads (emphasis added):
(3) Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.
(The “otherwise provided” clause does not apply, as the LDS Church, being a church, is a disqualified entity as described in subsection (h).)
The LDS church, through inciting its members to donate time and means to support Proposition 8 (resulting in millions of dollars of cash contributions from its members and countless volunteer hours), and in-kind campaign contributions to a group that supports Proposition 8, has now made a substantial part of its activities attempting to influence legislation.
You can help! Send the IRS an official complaint about the LDS Church’s activities, either by email, fax or US Mail.
Prepare a copy of the Official LDS Prop. 8 Letter read in all LDS churches in California on 29 June 2008.
Prepare one or more other articles of your choice (you can use these links, or do your own research) showing the LDS Church’s substantial activities attempting to influence this legislation.
Prepare this Pre-Filled IRS Form 13909 and add your personal information, or fill out a Blank IRS Form 13909 from scratch with the information in the pre-filled form (copied below in RESOURCES.)
Don’t forget to date your referral at the top and include your submitter information. If you are a member of the Church, you may wish to check the box marked “I am concerned that I might face retaliation or retribution if my identity is disclosed.”
Send it to the IRS, either by:
* Email: Prepare your documents as PDF’s or web links, and send your complaint form with supporting documentation to eoclass@irs.gov.
* Fax: fax your documents to (214) 413-5415
* Mail: mail your documents to
IRS EO Classification
Mail Code 4910DAL
1100 Commerce Street
Dallas TX 75242-1198
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESOURCES:
Official IRS Complaint Process for Tax-Exempt Organizations
US Code Title 26, Section 501
Official LDS Prop. 8 Letter
List of LDS Entities (Source of Tax ID Number)
Information required for IRS Form 13909:
Name of Referred Organization: The Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Street Address: 50 E. North Temple St., Salt Lake City UT 84150
Organization’s EIN: 23-7300405
For Section 4, see the Pre-Filled IRS Form 13909, or write your concerns in your own words.
Section 501(c)(3) of US Code Title 26, which governs tax-exempt organizations, reads (emphasis added):
(3) Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.
(The “otherwise provided” clause does not apply, as the LDS Church, being a church, is a disqualified entity as described in subsection (h).)
The LDS church, through inciting its members to donate time and means to support Proposition 8 (resulting in millions of dollars of cash contributions from its members and countless volunteer hours), and in-kind campaign contributions to a group that supports Proposition 8, has now made a substantial part of its activities attempting to influence legislation.
You can help! Send the IRS an official complaint about the LDS Church’s activities, either by email, fax or US Mail.
Prepare a copy of the Official LDS Prop. 8 Letter read in all LDS churches in California on 29 June 2008.
Prepare one or more other articles of your choice (you can use these links, or do your own research) showing the LDS Church’s substantial activities attempting to influence this legislation.
Prepare this Pre-Filled IRS Form 13909 and add your personal information, or fill out a Blank IRS Form 13909 from scratch with the information in the pre-filled form (copied below in RESOURCES.)
Don’t forget to date your referral at the top and include your submitter information. If you are a member of the Church, you may wish to check the box marked “I am concerned that I might face retaliation or retribution if my identity is disclosed.”
Send it to the IRS, either by:
* Email: Prepare your documents as PDF’s or web links, and send your complaint form with supporting documentation to eoclass@irs.gov.
* Fax: fax your documents to (214) 413-5415
* Mail: mail your documents to
IRS EO Classification
Mail Code 4910DAL
1100 Commerce Street
Dallas TX 75242-1198
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESOURCES:
Official IRS Complaint Process for Tax-Exempt Organizations
US Code Title 26, Section 501
Official LDS Prop. 8 Letter
List of LDS Entities (Source of Tax ID Number)
Information required for IRS Form 13909:
Name of Referred Organization: The Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Street Address: 50 E. North Temple St., Salt Lake City UT 84150
Organization’s EIN: 23-7300405
For Section 4, see the Pre-Filled IRS Form 13909, or write your concerns in your own words.
Petition To Remove Mormon Tax Exempt Status
On May 16, 2008, the California Supreme Court affirmed that the state constitution, AS IT WAS WRITTEN BY THE FOUNDERS OF THIS STATE MORE THAN 150 YEARS PRIOR, provided official government recognition of all marriages between all couples, regardless of gender.
On November 4, 2008, Proposition 8 amended this constitution to explicitly deny this right to same-sex couples. Nowhere else in either California's constitution or the Federal Constitution are a specific class of rights restricted, to any minority group, for any reason.
Why did this proposition pass? Was it because Californians genuinely believed that granting rights to a minority group undermine the fabric of society? No.
Was it because Californians failed to recognize the similarity of Proposition 8 with the bans on interracial marriage last century, once considered "controversial" but now universally recognized as evil? No.
Was it because Californians no longer saw their constitution as a foundational document that is amended carefully, but a document as pliable as putty and subject to the whims of a narrow majority? No.
How, then, did Proposition 8 become law?
THE MORMON CHURCH.
For the past six months, Mormons misled Californians about the effects of the Supreme Court ruling.
They told us we would lose the right to participate in our children's education. Lies.
They told us the California state public school curriculum would be modified to teach sex education to kindergartners. Lies.
They told us churches would lose the right to free speech. Lies.
If this is the way Mormons treat gays and lesbians of California, let us ask:
How has America treated Mormons?
The Mormon church began in 1830 in New York. The first Mormons were persecuted by the American majority, and were compelled to emigrate to Utah where they could live unmolested, much like gays and lesbians who lived in the urban ghettos last century. Mormons had alternative views of what family meant, and were excluded and marginalized from the political process. In their arguments against the majority, Mormon Prophet Brigham Young wrote:
Marriage is a civil contract. You might as well make a law to say how many children a man shall have, as to make a law to say how many wives he shall have. (Journal of Discourses, 11:268-9)
Much has improved for the Mormon people since then. Today, Mormons have powerful representation in the Senate, and ran a nationally viable candidate for the United States Presidency in 2008.
The Mormon story is possible because our country is a tolerant and forgiving place. America believes in the rights of its citizens to determine their own fates, and grants rights to individual communities to determine their own norms and values. The Mormon people have been able to flourish because of this country's generous spirit.
But now, history has reversed, and it is the Mormons who have become the oppressor.
The Mormons began with the Boy Scouts of America, originally a children's club meant to introduce boys and girls to the natural beauty of America. Mormons took financial control of the Boy Scouts by donating more than 28% of their global operating budget per year. Gays and lesbians are barred from participating in this group not just in Mormon troops, but nationwide, thereby turning our children into a political football.
Some Mormons send their own gay teenage children to "conversion camps," where these children are forced to endure shock therapy and given psychotropic drugs. The emotional stress of such experience drives many to contemplate suicide. The Mormon Church has yet to repudiate these activities.
Now the Mormon Church has set its target on gay and lesbian adults of California. They have started by amending our constitution to deny equal protection to gays and lesbians.
Ask the Jews about how freedoms are lost. The concentration camps were not built in a national referendum. They were the product of a systemic reduction of freedoms, year after year, one at a time.
We as citizens of California, Americans, and persons of various beliefs and faiths will not allow this to happen.
Are all Mormons against rights for gays?
Absolutely not. So far, 300 Mormons and 1 Mormon celebrity have stood up against their church to support gay rights. We respect the challenge of standing up to a majority, especially when those 301 stand in the face of more than 13.1M Mormons worldwide.
To the rest of those silent Mormon protesters, one can offer the words of Elie Wiesel:
"I swore to never be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides, Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim, silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."
How can we stop this agenda?
To restore the right stolen from us, we must correct the amendment to California's constitution. To do this requires another statewide proposition. Yet how will we avoid another election season of deception, when the Mormon Church can pour limitless, tax-free money into advancing their platform?
Strip the Mormon church of its status as a religious organization.
According to IRS law,
Section 501(c)(3) describes corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literacy, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in section (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distribution of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.
From IRS Publication 1828 Page 5,
Substantial Lobbying Activity
In general, no organization, including a church, may qualify for IRC section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). An IRC section 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
In this country, you can be a church. You can be a political action committee. You cannot be both. The Mormon Church stands in direct defiance of the spirit of our laws by actively campaigning to change California law.
We must clarify our tax law to prohibit this behavior.
The United Kingdom has already moved to strip the church of its tax-exempt status.
Through Prop 8, the Mormon Church has shown its true colors as a political group with specific social ends. Political speech is fair and legal here; such speech under the guise of religion is not. The playing field must be leveled. Though many religious groups were involved in Prop 8, the Mormon Church made this a far more substantial part of its activities than any other.
Californians will vote on future propositions to correct this flawed amendment next year, and every year, until we achieve our rights under the state constitution. We must be assured that our advocacy organizations are on an equal legal and financial playing field as those of our opponents.
What can I do now?
Sign this petition to support the legal effort to amend our tax laws such that the Mormon Church would lose its tax-exempt status if they continue lobbying in this way. We intend to share this list with the ACLU, Lambda Legal, and other official legal organizations that will be pressing forward with this effort. Anyone can sign this petition.
http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/
On November 4, 2008, Proposition 8 amended this constitution to explicitly deny this right to same-sex couples. Nowhere else in either California's constitution or the Federal Constitution are a specific class of rights restricted, to any minority group, for any reason.
Why did this proposition pass? Was it because Californians genuinely believed that granting rights to a minority group undermine the fabric of society? No.
Was it because Californians failed to recognize the similarity of Proposition 8 with the bans on interracial marriage last century, once considered "controversial" but now universally recognized as evil? No.
Was it because Californians no longer saw their constitution as a foundational document that is amended carefully, but a document as pliable as putty and subject to the whims of a narrow majority? No.
How, then, did Proposition 8 become law?
THE MORMON CHURCH.
For the past six months, Mormons misled Californians about the effects of the Supreme Court ruling.
They told us we would lose the right to participate in our children's education. Lies.
They told us the California state public school curriculum would be modified to teach sex education to kindergartners. Lies.
They told us churches would lose the right to free speech. Lies.
If this is the way Mormons treat gays and lesbians of California, let us ask:
How has America treated Mormons?
The Mormon church began in 1830 in New York. The first Mormons were persecuted by the American majority, and were compelled to emigrate to Utah where they could live unmolested, much like gays and lesbians who lived in the urban ghettos last century. Mormons had alternative views of what family meant, and were excluded and marginalized from the political process. In their arguments against the majority, Mormon Prophet Brigham Young wrote:
Marriage is a civil contract. You might as well make a law to say how many children a man shall have, as to make a law to say how many wives he shall have. (Journal of Discourses, 11:268-9)
Much has improved for the Mormon people since then. Today, Mormons have powerful representation in the Senate, and ran a nationally viable candidate for the United States Presidency in 2008.
The Mormon story is possible because our country is a tolerant and forgiving place. America believes in the rights of its citizens to determine their own fates, and grants rights to individual communities to determine their own norms and values. The Mormon people have been able to flourish because of this country's generous spirit.
But now, history has reversed, and it is the Mormons who have become the oppressor.
The Mormons began with the Boy Scouts of America, originally a children's club meant to introduce boys and girls to the natural beauty of America. Mormons took financial control of the Boy Scouts by donating more than 28% of their global operating budget per year. Gays and lesbians are barred from participating in this group not just in Mormon troops, but nationwide, thereby turning our children into a political football.
Some Mormons send their own gay teenage children to "conversion camps," where these children are forced to endure shock therapy and given psychotropic drugs. The emotional stress of such experience drives many to contemplate suicide. The Mormon Church has yet to repudiate these activities.
Now the Mormon Church has set its target on gay and lesbian adults of California. They have started by amending our constitution to deny equal protection to gays and lesbians.
Ask the Jews about how freedoms are lost. The concentration camps were not built in a national referendum. They were the product of a systemic reduction of freedoms, year after year, one at a time.
We as citizens of California, Americans, and persons of various beliefs and faiths will not allow this to happen.
Are all Mormons against rights for gays?
Absolutely not. So far, 300 Mormons and 1 Mormon celebrity have stood up against their church to support gay rights. We respect the challenge of standing up to a majority, especially when those 301 stand in the face of more than 13.1M Mormons worldwide.
To the rest of those silent Mormon protesters, one can offer the words of Elie Wiesel:
"I swore to never be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides, Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim, silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."
How can we stop this agenda?
To restore the right stolen from us, we must correct the amendment to California's constitution. To do this requires another statewide proposition. Yet how will we avoid another election season of deception, when the Mormon Church can pour limitless, tax-free money into advancing their platform?
Strip the Mormon church of its status as a religious organization.
According to IRS law,
Section 501(c)(3) describes corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literacy, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in section (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distribution of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.
From IRS Publication 1828 Page 5,
Substantial Lobbying Activity
In general, no organization, including a church, may qualify for IRC section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). An IRC section 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
In this country, you can be a church. You can be a political action committee. You cannot be both. The Mormon Church stands in direct defiance of the spirit of our laws by actively campaigning to change California law.
We must clarify our tax law to prohibit this behavior.
The United Kingdom has already moved to strip the church of its tax-exempt status.
Through Prop 8, the Mormon Church has shown its true colors as a political group with specific social ends. Political speech is fair and legal here; such speech under the guise of religion is not. The playing field must be leveled. Though many religious groups were involved in Prop 8, the Mormon Church made this a far more substantial part of its activities than any other.
Californians will vote on future propositions to correct this flawed amendment next year, and every year, until we achieve our rights under the state constitution. We must be assured that our advocacy organizations are on an equal legal and financial playing field as those of our opponents.
What can I do now?
Sign this petition to support the legal effort to amend our tax laws such that the Mormon Church would lose its tax-exempt status if they continue lobbying in this way. We intend to share this list with the ACLU, Lambda Legal, and other official legal organizations that will be pressing forward with this effort. Anyone can sign this petition.
http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/
Take your hate to some other state, you bigots!
Ok, I have been in numerous discussions today with Prop 8 supporters and opponents and there is one thing that astounds me about the supporters...they actually thought that the loser of Prop 8 wouldn't take it to court. Seriously, if Yes would have lost there would have been court battles on their side as well. You would have to be completely ignorant to have not realized that this was going to happen...no matter who lost.
So, what has happened to me today? Well, Jerry Brown confirmed that those who were married between June and November 4th, WILL keep their marriage status and that he will fight it in court if anyone tries to take that away. The writers of Prop 8 were stupid, they didn't write it as being retroactive but are now saying that was their intent. Come on morons, this isn't the first time you haven't done things the right way legally. How hard would it have been to say, this would take affect retroactively? Incompetence...and trying to claim that was your intent but not saying it in the Prop means jack shit. My marriage is LEGAL and your stupid religious definiton isn't going to affect me.
Last night and today, there were demonstrations all across the state. Most notably, the demonstration last night in West Hollywood where nearly 2500 people turned out. And, today where the demonstration went to the Mormon Temple in Westwood and the Federal building. Unfortunately, some idiot jumped out of his pick-up truck and decked a gay NO on Prop 8 demonstrator. What a moron...didn't he realize that he just committed a hate crime? Hate crimes have stricter laws agaisnt them than just a normal assault & battery, so that freak is going to be in BIG trouble...I hope it was worth it.
So, I am confident that Prop 8 will be found unconstitutional. Yet, I keep hearing THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE argument. Unfortunately, for them, the purpose of the constitution is to protect minorities from discrimination imposed by a majority and that is exactly what happened with Prop 8. Gay marriage is here and here to stay, we just have to wait for the licenses to be issued again under court instruction and that shouldn't take long.
However, as I said before in one of my previous posts, I have lost my faith in Christians and for the 52.5% of Californians who voted Yes. I will TOLERATE them, eventhough they didn't give gay people the same respect. I wish we had the laws in place like Florida where a Prop of this magnitude requires a minimum of a 60% vote. I understand where that makes sense because for the most part the population is pretty much equally split and they want to make sure a majority is more than a few percentage points.
The other thing I love is that we have both a domestic partnership and a marriage. It is completely legal to have both and there aren't many people who have them. We weren't required to dissolve the domestic partnership because as long as you were getting married to the same person, both are valid. Yes, we made history and no matter what, I will have those two pieces of paper to prove that I am EQUAL to anyone who wants to tell me otherwise. Eventhough, I was told that I should use my marriage certificate as toilet paper, I just responded that you might as well use the California Constitution because you already proved that it is worthless by your unconstitutional Proposition. How rude to tell someone to use their marriage license as toilet paper...sorry, I got married when it was legal and you can't take it away because your stupid Proposition writers don't know how to write the word RETROACTIVE. :P
Ok, in all seriousness and deviating from my selfish rant, we as a people should feel ashamed that our fellow citizens have legalized discrimination. In no time in history has a group of people been given rights to then have them taken away by amending a constitution to legalize discrimination. Although I do not believe in violence or retaliation, I do urge you to do what you want to make your voice be heard that this just isn't right. Protest, file a court case, report the LDS church (or any church you are aware of that performed Yes on Prop 8 activities) for violating the mandate of seperation of church and state to then revoke their tax exempt status, write/email your friends, talk to your neighbors, put signs in your windows, stickers on your car, wear Prop 8 clothing or blog about it. What has been done in this vote is unlike any other, all of the churches that specifically called out Prop 8 in any of their rallies for traditional marriage are in violation of the seperation of church and state mandate and the IRS will remove their tax exempt status. All these fears that the churches had about losing their tax exempts status because they didn't want to perform gay marriages was ridiculous but everything they did for Prop 8 put that very status in jeopardy. They really don't seem to think and will now achieve everything they feared and gay marriage had nothing to do with it. Completely laughable.
Also, something I never understood during the campaign, this fear that people have of children learning about gay marriage. Here is your lesson plan...marriage is a commitment made by two adults to love and care for each other, to commit to each other for the rest of their lives. WOW...that is scary isn't it? What is completely laughable is that the specific law specifies that if a school adopts the voluntary health/sex education they are "required to teach respect for marriage and COMMITTED relationships." So guess what, you aren't protecting your children from anything because domestic partnerships for gay people have been around for years. Don't you think domestic partnerships are COMMITTED relationships? Fine, right now it isn't called marriage, but even calling it domestic partnerships will result in the same education as it would if it were called marriage.
Prop 8 supporters have, temporarily, legalized discrimination and discrimination by any other name is HATE. I don't care what the supporters say, they are PRO HATE. Their claims that they aren't are just insulting, as the only excuse for passing this Proposition is to exert that hate. The only reason to make a group of society second class citizens is because you hate them and maybe for some, fear them because they are closeted themselves. Don't worry, your hate has been heard loud and clear. Congratulations for making HATE your Family Value...what an amazing accomplishment for you, you should be so proud and honored to be with those elites, like Hitler, Pol Pot, the KKK, Saddam Hussein, etc. Wow, aren't you lucky...those are some pretty powerful people to be in standing with. Luckily for me, I have some pretty elite people that I stand with, Harvey Milk, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., John F. Kennedy, Barack Obama, Jesse Jackson, Nelson Mandela, Malcolm X, Cesar Chavez, Che Guevarra, Susan B. Anthony, etc. NOW..I am honored!
Take your hate to some other state, you bigots!
So, what has happened to me today? Well, Jerry Brown confirmed that those who were married between June and November 4th, WILL keep their marriage status and that he will fight it in court if anyone tries to take that away. The writers of Prop 8 were stupid, they didn't write it as being retroactive but are now saying that was their intent. Come on morons, this isn't the first time you haven't done things the right way legally. How hard would it have been to say, this would take affect retroactively? Incompetence...and trying to claim that was your intent but not saying it in the Prop means jack shit. My marriage is LEGAL and your stupid religious definiton isn't going to affect me.
Last night and today, there were demonstrations all across the state. Most notably, the demonstration last night in West Hollywood where nearly 2500 people turned out. And, today where the demonstration went to the Mormon Temple in Westwood and the Federal building. Unfortunately, some idiot jumped out of his pick-up truck and decked a gay NO on Prop 8 demonstrator. What a moron...didn't he realize that he just committed a hate crime? Hate crimes have stricter laws agaisnt them than just a normal assault & battery, so that freak is going to be in BIG trouble...I hope it was worth it.
So, I am confident that Prop 8 will be found unconstitutional. Yet, I keep hearing THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE argument. Unfortunately, for them, the purpose of the constitution is to protect minorities from discrimination imposed by a majority and that is exactly what happened with Prop 8. Gay marriage is here and here to stay, we just have to wait for the licenses to be issued again under court instruction and that shouldn't take long.
However, as I said before in one of my previous posts, I have lost my faith in Christians and for the 52.5% of Californians who voted Yes. I will TOLERATE them, eventhough they didn't give gay people the same respect. I wish we had the laws in place like Florida where a Prop of this magnitude requires a minimum of a 60% vote. I understand where that makes sense because for the most part the population is pretty much equally split and they want to make sure a majority is more than a few percentage points.
The other thing I love is that we have both a domestic partnership and a marriage. It is completely legal to have both and there aren't many people who have them. We weren't required to dissolve the domestic partnership because as long as you were getting married to the same person, both are valid. Yes, we made history and no matter what, I will have those two pieces of paper to prove that I am EQUAL to anyone who wants to tell me otherwise. Eventhough, I was told that I should use my marriage certificate as toilet paper, I just responded that you might as well use the California Constitution because you already proved that it is worthless by your unconstitutional Proposition. How rude to tell someone to use their marriage license as toilet paper...sorry, I got married when it was legal and you can't take it away because your stupid Proposition writers don't know how to write the word RETROACTIVE. :P
Ok, in all seriousness and deviating from my selfish rant, we as a people should feel ashamed that our fellow citizens have legalized discrimination. In no time in history has a group of people been given rights to then have them taken away by amending a constitution to legalize discrimination. Although I do not believe in violence or retaliation, I do urge you to do what you want to make your voice be heard that this just isn't right. Protest, file a court case, report the LDS church (or any church you are aware of that performed Yes on Prop 8 activities) for violating the mandate of seperation of church and state to then revoke their tax exempt status, write/email your friends, talk to your neighbors, put signs in your windows, stickers on your car, wear Prop 8 clothing or blog about it. What has been done in this vote is unlike any other, all of the churches that specifically called out Prop 8 in any of their rallies for traditional marriage are in violation of the seperation of church and state mandate and the IRS will remove their tax exempt status. All these fears that the churches had about losing their tax exempts status because they didn't want to perform gay marriages was ridiculous but everything they did for Prop 8 put that very status in jeopardy. They really don't seem to think and will now achieve everything they feared and gay marriage had nothing to do with it. Completely laughable.
Also, something I never understood during the campaign, this fear that people have of children learning about gay marriage. Here is your lesson plan...marriage is a commitment made by two adults to love and care for each other, to commit to each other for the rest of their lives. WOW...that is scary isn't it? What is completely laughable is that the specific law specifies that if a school adopts the voluntary health/sex education they are "required to teach respect for marriage and COMMITTED relationships." So guess what, you aren't protecting your children from anything because domestic partnerships for gay people have been around for years. Don't you think domestic partnerships are COMMITTED relationships? Fine, right now it isn't called marriage, but even calling it domestic partnerships will result in the same education as it would if it were called marriage.
Prop 8 supporters have, temporarily, legalized discrimination and discrimination by any other name is HATE. I don't care what the supporters say, they are PRO HATE. Their claims that they aren't are just insulting, as the only excuse for passing this Proposition is to exert that hate. The only reason to make a group of society second class citizens is because you hate them and maybe for some, fear them because they are closeted themselves. Don't worry, your hate has been heard loud and clear. Congratulations for making HATE your Family Value...what an amazing accomplishment for you, you should be so proud and honored to be with those elites, like Hitler, Pol Pot, the KKK, Saddam Hussein, etc. Wow, aren't you lucky...those are some pretty powerful people to be in standing with. Luckily for me, I have some pretty elite people that I stand with, Harvey Milk, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., John F. Kennedy, Barack Obama, Jesse Jackson, Nelson Mandela, Malcolm X, Cesar Chavez, Che Guevarra, Susan B. Anthony, etc. NOW..I am honored!
Take your hate to some other state, you bigots!
We will not give up
We had hoped never to have to write this email.
Sadly, fueled by misinformation, distortions and lies, millions of voters went to the polls yesterday and said YES to bigotry, YES to discrimination, YES to second-class status for same-sex couples.
And while the election was close, and millions of votes still remain uncounted, it has become apparent that we lost.
There is no question this defeat is hard.
Thousands of people have poured their talents, their time, their resources and their hearts into this struggle for freedom and this fight to have their relationships treated equally. Much has been sacrificed in this struggle.
While we knew the odds for success were not with us, we believed Californians could be the first in the nation to defeat the injustice of discriminatory measures like Proposition 8.
And while victory is not ours this day, we know that because of the work done here, freedom, fairness and equality will be ours someday. Just look at how far we have come in a few decades.
Up until 1974 same-sex intimacy was a crime in California. There wasn't a single law recognizing the relationships of same-sex couples until 1984 -- passed by the Berkeley School District. San Francisco did not pass domestic-partner protections until 1990; the state of California followed in 2005. And in 2000, Proposition 22 passed with a 23% majority.
Today, we fought to retain our right to marry and millions of Californians stood with us. Over the course of this campaign everyday Californians and their friends, neighbors and families built a civil rights campaign unequalled in California history.
You raised more money than anyone believed possible for an LGBT civil rights campaign.
You reached out to family and friends in record numbers -- helping hundreds of thousands of Californians understand what the LGBT civil rights struggle is really about.
You built the largest grassroots and volunteer network that has ever been built -- a coalition that will continue to fight until all people are equal.
And you made the case to the people of California and to the rest of the world that discrimination -- in any form -- is unfair and wrong.
We are humbled by the courage, dignity and commitment displayed by all who fought this historic battle.
Victory was not ours today. But the struggle for equality is not over.
Because of the struggle fought here in California -- fought so incredibly well by the people in this state who love freedom and justice -- our fight for full civil rights will continue.
Activist and writer Anne Lamott writes, "Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."
We stand together, knowing... our dawn will come.
Dr. Delores A. Jacobs
CEO
Center Advocacy Project
Lorri L. Jean
CEO
L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center
Kate Kendell
Executive Director
National Center for Lesbian Rights
Geoff Kors
Executive Director
Equality California
Sadly, fueled by misinformation, distortions and lies, millions of voters went to the polls yesterday and said YES to bigotry, YES to discrimination, YES to second-class status for same-sex couples.
And while the election was close, and millions of votes still remain uncounted, it has become apparent that we lost.
There is no question this defeat is hard.
Thousands of people have poured their talents, their time, their resources and their hearts into this struggle for freedom and this fight to have their relationships treated equally. Much has been sacrificed in this struggle.
While we knew the odds for success were not with us, we believed Californians could be the first in the nation to defeat the injustice of discriminatory measures like Proposition 8.
And while victory is not ours this day, we know that because of the work done here, freedom, fairness and equality will be ours someday. Just look at how far we have come in a few decades.
Up until 1974 same-sex intimacy was a crime in California. There wasn't a single law recognizing the relationships of same-sex couples until 1984 -- passed by the Berkeley School District. San Francisco did not pass domestic-partner protections until 1990; the state of California followed in 2005. And in 2000, Proposition 22 passed with a 23% majority.
Today, we fought to retain our right to marry and millions of Californians stood with us. Over the course of this campaign everyday Californians and their friends, neighbors and families built a civil rights campaign unequalled in California history.
You raised more money than anyone believed possible for an LGBT civil rights campaign.
You reached out to family and friends in record numbers -- helping hundreds of thousands of Californians understand what the LGBT civil rights struggle is really about.
You built the largest grassroots and volunteer network that has ever been built -- a coalition that will continue to fight until all people are equal.
And you made the case to the people of California and to the rest of the world that discrimination -- in any form -- is unfair and wrong.
We are humbled by the courage, dignity and commitment displayed by all who fought this historic battle.
Victory was not ours today. But the struggle for equality is not over.
Because of the struggle fought here in California -- fought so incredibly well by the people in this state who love freedom and justice -- our fight for full civil rights will continue.
Activist and writer Anne Lamott writes, "Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."
We stand together, knowing... our dawn will come.
Dr. Delores A. Jacobs
CEO
Center Advocacy Project
Lorri L. Jean
CEO
L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center
Kate Kendell
Executive Director
National Center for Lesbian Rights
Geoff Kors
Executive Director
Equality California
Prop 8 Fight Back- Report LDS Church to IRS for Tax Evasion, Here's How!
We have been getting a lot of letters from friends and family saying how they can't understand how Prop 8 passed. We will not stop fighting and what the Mormon and many other churches did was wrong and completely against the law. Please forward to all of your friends that care about America's freedom and you don't have to live in California! There is also a petition to the governor which you can sign here: http://www.petitiononline.com/seg5130/petition.html Thank you everyone for your prayers and support! God Bless! Suzette & Nicole
If it upsets you that a church can meddle with another state's political statutes, here's something simple you can do. To report the LDS Church to the IRS, simply take 5 minutes to print
these articles out and any others you can find:
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10839546
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10842051
Then print, sign, and send the attached form (already completed, after the jump) or download a blank and fill it out yourself at
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf.
List the taxpayer as:
Thomas S. Monson, et al
50 East North Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150
List his occupation as President and the business as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Check the boxes for False Exemption and Public/Political Corruption.
Then in the Comments section demand that the LDS Church be fined and their tax-exempt status revoked for repeated and blatant violations of the IRS's separate of church and state rules, and for conspiring to interfere with a state's political process.
Check Yes under "Are books/records available?" and write in "campaign finance records."
You don't have to provide any of your own personal info. Mail the form and the printed articles to:
Internal Revenue Service
Fresno, CA 93888
If it upsets you that a church can meddle with another state's political statutes, here's something simple you can do. To report the LDS Church to the IRS, simply take 5 minutes to print
these articles out and any others you can find:
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10839546
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10842051
Then print, sign, and send the attached form (already completed, after the jump) or download a blank and fill it out yourself at
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf.
List the taxpayer as:
Thomas S. Monson, et al
50 East North Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150
List his occupation as President and the business as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Check the boxes for False Exemption and Public/Political Corruption.
Then in the Comments section demand that the LDS Church be fined and their tax-exempt status revoked for repeated and blatant violations of the IRS's separate of church and state rules, and for conspiring to interfere with a state's political process.
Check Yes under "Are books/records available?" and write in "campaign finance records."
You don't have to provide any of your own personal info. Mail the form and the printed articles to:
Internal Revenue Service
Fresno, CA 93888
Wednesday, November 5, 2008
CA election, chickens, Prop 8, Jesus, anti-Christianity...why?
"You know, California, where chickens now have more rights than gay people ... the anguish that our community feels nationally is overwhelming, and we're not going to take this lightly and we're not going away," Robin Tyler (represented by Gloria Allred, along with her partner Diane Olson, in a pending lawsuit against Prop 8). California gives rights to chickens and takes rights away from gay people? It is true...whether you like it or not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is like comparing apples to oranges and it isn't like gay people are kept in cages and can't turn around but I just don't understand how we can value chickens (yes, it also covered pregnant pigs and calfs for veal, but the farms for that in California are few and far between...so it is inconsequential) rights over those of people. As many of you know, I had a problem with Prop 2, not because I don't believe in animal rights, but because I don't think it did enough. Prop 2 doesn't address that it will cause increases in prices of California animal products because of the new requirements, which will now create an increased dependence on out of state and Mexico animal products because they will cost less but will come with the heavy price of less strict laws than California already has to keep animals healthy for food consumption. Thus, there are chances of increased disease and infection being passed on through animal products to Californians. Prop 2 really should have addressed those issues to insure that our reliance on out of state or Mexico animal products wouldn't happen. That is why I voted against Prop 2, not because I don't want animal rights, but because I want better animal rights that aren't at an expense to our health. But, this isn't about Prop 2, it is about Prop 8.
Although I was prepared for Prop 8 to pass, it doesn't make the sting any less. I am just in shock and awe that we were having to vote for civil rights in the first place but even more disappointed that there were actually that many people who would be for legalizing discrimination. Yes, I have argued with Prop 8 supporters about the fact that it is discrimination and all of them I talked to don't believe that it is discrimination. How can you say specifically excluding a part of a population from a right isn't discrimination? I would rather they just come out and say they support discrimination, rather than lie to me and themselves that it isn't. The other thing, with nearly 80% of the funding coming from Mormons who were pressured by their Church to donate money to the Yes campaign, I have lost my faith in Christians. Nevermind the fact that the Old Testament eludes to homosexuality being wrong, the Old Testament is the Hebrew Bible and Christians repurposed it for themselves. However, Jesus didn't agree with the Old Testament and it was HIS religion's book (remember...he was Jewish). So, why would anyone follow it or use it as a reference to oppress a part of society today? Ok, well let's focus on REAL Christian values, actually likely values that all religions share, love thy neighbor, treat those the way you want to be treated and do not judge. The Bible also says, (Matthew 25:40) ..."Whenever you did these things to the lowliest of my brothers, you were doing it to me" or (Matthew 25:45) "...whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'"..."these" or "the lowliest of my brother" are the lesser people in society, which is clearly what gay people are considered with this discriminatory initiative. Jesus is asking the privileged to move out of their comfort zone and associate with people of lesser position in life, help these ones to improve their position. Wouldn't gay people be improving their position in life if they had the right to marry? Jesus' particular emphasis is that God's People should not treat others according to their class or social status (although this may get you ahead by worldly standards) but that we are to treat all people equally as God would . . . . and if you do this you are closer to God, or, as Jesus says in Mark's version of the Good Samaritan Story, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." (Mark 12:34b). You see, Prop 8 is anti-Christian, though supported by a majority of Christians. God wants people to be treated equally and for us to accept and respect each other. Prop 8 is the antithesis, the complete opposition of what God, Jesus or the Bible even dictates. So, with Prop 8 being OBVIOUSLY anti-Christian, why did they support it? They supported it because of the definition of marriage in the Bible, but what they failed to realize is that is a moral definition and what we are talking about is civil law, which should be an ethical definition. Morals do not dictate law and is solely exclusive to religion (although some laws against incest and polygamy can be argued as moral based laws)...that is what religion is all about...morality. There is no such thing as "Christian Politics" because if it is politics, it can't be Christian. Jesus brought no political message or program in his teachings. So why are they trying to impose their religion on politics, on law? Jesus wouldn't be Republican or Democrat, as he avoided those who would trap him into taking sides for or against the Roman occupation of Judea. He paid his taxes to the occupying power but said only, "Let Caesar have what belongs to him, and God have what belongs to him" (Matthew 22:21). He was the original proponent of a separation of church and state. The Romans did not believe Jesus when he said he had no political ambitions. That is why the soldiers mocked him as a failed king, giving him a robe and scepter and bowing in fake obedience (John 19:1-3). Those who today say that they are creating or following a "Christian Politics" continue the work of those soldiers, disregarding the words of Jesus that his reign is not of this order. Some people want to display and honor the Ten Commandments as a political commitment enjoined by the religion of Jesus. That very act is a violation of the First and Second Commandments. By erecting a false religion — imposing a reign of Jesus in this order — they are worshiping a false god. They commit idolatry. They also take the Lord's name in vain. Some may think that removing Jesus from politics would mean removing morality from politics. They think we would all be better off if we took up the slogan "What would Jesus do?" The Jesus of the Gospels is not a great ethical teacher like Socrates, our leading humanitarian. He is an apocalyptic figure who steps outside the boundaries of normal morality to signal that the Father's judgment is breaking into history. His miracles were not acts of charity but eschatological signs — accepting the unclean, promising heavenly rewards, making last things first. He is more a higher Nietzsche, beyond good and evil, than a higher Socrates. No politician is going to tell the lustful that they must pluck out their right eye. We cannot do what Jesus would do because we are not divine. Jesus was the victim of every institutional authority in his life and death. He said: "Do not be called Rabbi, since you have only one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, the one in heaven. And do not be called leaders, since you have only one leader, the Messiah" (Matthew 23:8-10). If Christians want to fight for the support of an institutional Jesus, they will have to give up the person who said those words...Jesus. They will have to turn away from what Flannery O'Connor described as "the bleeding stinking mad shadow of Jesus" and "a wild ragged figure" who flits "from tree to tree in the back" of the mind. He was never that thing that all politics would esteem — respectable. At various times in the Gospels, Jesus is called a devil, the devil's agent, irreligious, unclean, a mocker of Jewish law, a drunkard, a glutton, & a promoter of immorality. So, I implore you, why are they obviously going against Christian values and Jesus himself in impressing their religious definition of marriage politically over law? Why are they bringing religion into government when there is no such thing as Christian politics and Jesus was the original advocate of church and state? The Christian position for Prop 8 is extremely flawed you see because they are doing exactly what Jesus wouldn't want them to do. (You can thank the fact that I was required to take Old & New Testament at Belmont University for this interpretation...I can give you more quotations to support Prop 8 being anti-Christian, but I think that it would be best served for me not to preach religion, especially since I am Agnostic)
Law is about ethics and the separation of church & state. So, again, why were churches imposing their religion's moral definition of marriage on the population? Because they fear anything that is different from them and agree that discrimination should occur to those that are not like them or do not believe like them. Granted this isn't the case with all Christians, as I met a number of Christians at work and at protests that were against Prop 8, whether because of their religious convictions or that they just think discrimination should not be legalized. However, it is the Yes Christians I am focusing on, the ones that actually promoted anti-Christianity in this fight while still attempting to impose their religion's definition of marriage on society...contradicting and confusing, I know. Well, it apparently worked...for now. However, with a writ of petition already filed and two lawsuits against Prop 8's passage also filed...it is likely that it will be found unconstitutional, just like Prop 22.
And here is why...
First off, the obvious answer, there is no difference in what they were trying to do with Prop 22 and what they are doing with Prop 8. Prop 22 was found unconstitutional and thus Prop 8 would be unconstitutional too. Yep, that means $73 million down the drain.
Second, a major purpose of the constitution is to protect minorities from majorities. Because changing that principle is a fundamental change to the organizing principles of the constitution itself, only the Legislature can initiate such revisions to the constitution. Therefore, a change of this nature is not amending the constitution which can be voted on by the people, it is a complete revision that can only be dictated by our legislature.
Third, it violates gay people's rights for due process and equal protection under the law.
Fourth, In re Marriage Cases, the majority declared gays and lesbians a suspect (protected) class, subjecting potential restrictions of their rights to a strict scrutiny standard and they should be shielded from discrimination. As a protected class, the government is required to protect gay people from laws such as Prop 8 because their main point is to discriminate against them and nothing more.
So, eventually Prop 8 will be struck down and if we are really lucky, the Supreme Court will stop it from being enacted while these cases are tried...although I find that unlikely. One option for the court would be to say, the way to harmonize Prop 8 and the equal protection clause of California's constitution is, if you're going to take away marriage rights for one group, you've got to take it away from everyone...also unlikely. However, the main bone of contention is that they don't want gay marriage to be called marriage, so let's take marriage out of law and allow everyone to have domestic partnerships or civil unions and leave marriage to be recognized by religions and churches. Seriously, this whole Prop 8 argument is asinine, it is over a word...a single word that really shouldn't mean much considering straight people have a 50% divorce rate. Why would you be so quick to protect marriage when there are so many divorces? If you want to protect marriage, make divorces illegal...like they used to be. That will make it so people won't jump into marriages so easily but would increase the amount of couples who have families out of wedlock, which is something that religions are against. It would probably also increase people attempting to murder their spouses so they can get out of their marriage...also something nobody wants to see happen. You see how this comes full circle? Religion exerting their power in politics and law...not right!
Marriage strengthens society...both straight and gay. They validate families and provide a loving, committed environment for children to thrive (if you want children). In fact, I would even bet that allowing gay people to marry would probably decrease the divorce rate because if anything, gay people value marriage just as much, if not more than straight people because it is something they don't get to have, where straight people have raised the divorce rate to the point where it appears that they feel it is disposable. Prop 8 is a terrible initiative. We should never be voting on civil rights, we should never have religious groups attempting to impose their religious definition on law or society and we should never be voting to legalize discrimination, no matter the subject.
Although I was prepared for Prop 8 to pass, it doesn't make the sting any less. I am just in shock and awe that we were having to vote for civil rights in the first place but even more disappointed that there were actually that many people who would be for legalizing discrimination. Yes, I have argued with Prop 8 supporters about the fact that it is discrimination and all of them I talked to don't believe that it is discrimination. How can you say specifically excluding a part of a population from a right isn't discrimination? I would rather they just come out and say they support discrimination, rather than lie to me and themselves that it isn't. The other thing, with nearly 80% of the funding coming from Mormons who were pressured by their Church to donate money to the Yes campaign, I have lost my faith in Christians. Nevermind the fact that the Old Testament eludes to homosexuality being wrong, the Old Testament is the Hebrew Bible and Christians repurposed it for themselves. However, Jesus didn't agree with the Old Testament and it was HIS religion's book (remember...he was Jewish). So, why would anyone follow it or use it as a reference to oppress a part of society today? Ok, well let's focus on REAL Christian values, actually likely values that all religions share, love thy neighbor, treat those the way you want to be treated and do not judge. The Bible also says, (Matthew 25:40) ..."Whenever you did these things to the lowliest of my brothers, you were doing it to me" or (Matthew 25:45) "...whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'"..."these" or "the lowliest of my brother" are the lesser people in society, which is clearly what gay people are considered with this discriminatory initiative. Jesus is asking the privileged to move out of their comfort zone and associate with people of lesser position in life, help these ones to improve their position. Wouldn't gay people be improving their position in life if they had the right to marry? Jesus' particular emphasis is that God's People should not treat others according to their class or social status (although this may get you ahead by worldly standards) but that we are to treat all people equally as God would . . . . and if you do this you are closer to God, or, as Jesus says in Mark's version of the Good Samaritan Story, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." (Mark 12:34b). You see, Prop 8 is anti-Christian, though supported by a majority of Christians. God wants people to be treated equally and for us to accept and respect each other. Prop 8 is the antithesis, the complete opposition of what God, Jesus or the Bible even dictates. So, with Prop 8 being OBVIOUSLY anti-Christian, why did they support it? They supported it because of the definition of marriage in the Bible, but what they failed to realize is that is a moral definition and what we are talking about is civil law, which should be an ethical definition. Morals do not dictate law and is solely exclusive to religion (although some laws against incest and polygamy can be argued as moral based laws)...that is what religion is all about...morality. There is no such thing as "Christian Politics" because if it is politics, it can't be Christian. Jesus brought no political message or program in his teachings. So why are they trying to impose their religion on politics, on law? Jesus wouldn't be Republican or Democrat, as he avoided those who would trap him into taking sides for or against the Roman occupation of Judea. He paid his taxes to the occupying power but said only, "Let Caesar have what belongs to him, and God have what belongs to him" (Matthew 22:21). He was the original proponent of a separation of church and state. The Romans did not believe Jesus when he said he had no political ambitions. That is why the soldiers mocked him as a failed king, giving him a robe and scepter and bowing in fake obedience (John 19:1-3). Those who today say that they are creating or following a "Christian Politics" continue the work of those soldiers, disregarding the words of Jesus that his reign is not of this order. Some people want to display and honor the Ten Commandments as a political commitment enjoined by the religion of Jesus. That very act is a violation of the First and Second Commandments. By erecting a false religion — imposing a reign of Jesus in this order — they are worshiping a false god. They commit idolatry. They also take the Lord's name in vain. Some may think that removing Jesus from politics would mean removing morality from politics. They think we would all be better off if we took up the slogan "What would Jesus do?" The Jesus of the Gospels is not a great ethical teacher like Socrates, our leading humanitarian. He is an apocalyptic figure who steps outside the boundaries of normal morality to signal that the Father's judgment is breaking into history. His miracles were not acts of charity but eschatological signs — accepting the unclean, promising heavenly rewards, making last things first. He is more a higher Nietzsche, beyond good and evil, than a higher Socrates. No politician is going to tell the lustful that they must pluck out their right eye. We cannot do what Jesus would do because we are not divine. Jesus was the victim of every institutional authority in his life and death. He said: "Do not be called Rabbi, since you have only one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, the one in heaven. And do not be called leaders, since you have only one leader, the Messiah" (Matthew 23:8-10). If Christians want to fight for the support of an institutional Jesus, they will have to give up the person who said those words...Jesus. They will have to turn away from what Flannery O'Connor described as "the bleeding stinking mad shadow of Jesus" and "a wild ragged figure" who flits "from tree to tree in the back" of the mind. He was never that thing that all politics would esteem — respectable. At various times in the Gospels, Jesus is called a devil, the devil's agent, irreligious, unclean, a mocker of Jewish law, a drunkard, a glutton, & a promoter of immorality. So, I implore you, why are they obviously going against Christian values and Jesus himself in impressing their religious definition of marriage politically over law? Why are they bringing religion into government when there is no such thing as Christian politics and Jesus was the original advocate of church and state? The Christian position for Prop 8 is extremely flawed you see because they are doing exactly what Jesus wouldn't want them to do. (You can thank the fact that I was required to take Old & New Testament at Belmont University for this interpretation...I can give you more quotations to support Prop 8 being anti-Christian, but I think that it would be best served for me not to preach religion, especially since I am Agnostic)
Law is about ethics and the separation of church & state. So, again, why were churches imposing their religion's moral definition of marriage on the population? Because they fear anything that is different from them and agree that discrimination should occur to those that are not like them or do not believe like them. Granted this isn't the case with all Christians, as I met a number of Christians at work and at protests that were against Prop 8, whether because of their religious convictions or that they just think discrimination should not be legalized. However, it is the Yes Christians I am focusing on, the ones that actually promoted anti-Christianity in this fight while still attempting to impose their religion's definition of marriage on society...contradicting and confusing, I know. Well, it apparently worked...for now. However, with a writ of petition already filed and two lawsuits against Prop 8's passage also filed...it is likely that it will be found unconstitutional, just like Prop 22.
And here is why...
First off, the obvious answer, there is no difference in what they were trying to do with Prop 22 and what they are doing with Prop 8. Prop 22 was found unconstitutional and thus Prop 8 would be unconstitutional too. Yep, that means $73 million down the drain.
Second, a major purpose of the constitution is to protect minorities from majorities. Because changing that principle is a fundamental change to the organizing principles of the constitution itself, only the Legislature can initiate such revisions to the constitution. Therefore, a change of this nature is not amending the constitution which can be voted on by the people, it is a complete revision that can only be dictated by our legislature.
Third, it violates gay people's rights for due process and equal protection under the law.
Fourth, In re Marriage Cases, the majority declared gays and lesbians a suspect (protected) class, subjecting potential restrictions of their rights to a strict scrutiny standard and they should be shielded from discrimination. As a protected class, the government is required to protect gay people from laws such as Prop 8 because their main point is to discriminate against them and nothing more.
So, eventually Prop 8 will be struck down and if we are really lucky, the Supreme Court will stop it from being enacted while these cases are tried...although I find that unlikely. One option for the court would be to say, the way to harmonize Prop 8 and the equal protection clause of California's constitution is, if you're going to take away marriage rights for one group, you've got to take it away from everyone...also unlikely. However, the main bone of contention is that they don't want gay marriage to be called marriage, so let's take marriage out of law and allow everyone to have domestic partnerships or civil unions and leave marriage to be recognized by religions and churches. Seriously, this whole Prop 8 argument is asinine, it is over a word...a single word that really shouldn't mean much considering straight people have a 50% divorce rate. Why would you be so quick to protect marriage when there are so many divorces? If you want to protect marriage, make divorces illegal...like they used to be. That will make it so people won't jump into marriages so easily but would increase the amount of couples who have families out of wedlock, which is something that religions are against. It would probably also increase people attempting to murder their spouses so they can get out of their marriage...also something nobody wants to see happen. You see how this comes full circle? Religion exerting their power in politics and law...not right!
Marriage strengthens society...both straight and gay. They validate families and provide a loving, committed environment for children to thrive (if you want children). In fact, I would even bet that allowing gay people to marry would probably decrease the divorce rate because if anything, gay people value marriage just as much, if not more than straight people because it is something they don't get to have, where straight people have raised the divorce rate to the point where it appears that they feel it is disposable. Prop 8 is a terrible initiative. We should never be voting on civil rights, we should never have religious groups attempting to impose their religious definition on law or society and we should never be voting to legalize discrimination, no matter the subject.
Same-Sex Marriage Lawsuit Filed in California
NEW SAME GENDER MARRIAGE LAWSUIT
Attorney Gloria Allred and her clients, a lesbian couple, who won
right to marry in the California Supreme Court will hold a news
conference to announce a new lawsuit against Prop. 8
Attorney Gloria Allred and her clients, Robin Tyler and Diane Olson,
will hold a news conference today November 5, 2008 at 12:00 noon at 6300
Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1500 L.A. to announce a new lawsuit against Prop.
8. Prop. 8 intended to ban same gender marriages in California.
Ms. Allred and her law firm represented the couple in their victory
before the California Supreme Court. Her clients became the first to
marry in Los Angeles County in June.
Ms. Allred will file the new lawsuit today with the California
Supreme Court on behalf of the couple. The new lawsuit will contain a
new and controversial legal argument as to why Prop. 8 is
unconstitutional. Copies of the lawsuit will be provided to the press at
the news conference.
Attorney Gloria Allred and her clients, a lesbian couple, who won
right to marry in the California Supreme Court will hold a news
conference to announce a new lawsuit against Prop. 8
Attorney Gloria Allred and her clients, Robin Tyler and Diane Olson,
will hold a news conference today November 5, 2008 at 12:00 noon at 6300
Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1500 L.A. to announce a new lawsuit against Prop.
8. Prop. 8 intended to ban same gender marriages in California.
Ms. Allred and her law firm represented the couple in their victory
before the California Supreme Court. Her clients became the first to
marry in Los Angeles County in June.
Ms. Allred will file the new lawsuit today with the California
Supreme Court on behalf of the couple. The new lawsuit will contain a
new and controversial legal argument as to why Prop. 8 is
unconstitutional. Copies of the lawsuit will be provided to the press at
the news conference.
Tuesday, November 4, 2008
THANK BABY JESUS OBAMA WON!
It doesn't matter if the yes freaks win because Obama will work it and other gay issues! THANK BABY JESUS OBAMA WON!
The Mormon missionaries and the lesbians
The Yes on 8 campaign is doing its best to spread its outrage -- outrage!! -- over the latest ad against Proposition 8, which would amend the state constitution to take away the right of gay and lesbian couples to wed.
The ad, which debuted on YouTube and is going out on television today, is certainly the most attention-getting TV spot to criticize the proposition. Most of the ads against Proposition 8 have been extraordinarily tame, unlike the fear-mongering rumors spread by the Yes side.
Not any more. The new ad -- a skit in which two actors playing Mormon missionaries visit the home of a married lesbian couple -- is clearly intended to signal viewers that the Mormon church has been a major player in the Yes campaign. Its message is that the religious right is claiming the power to strip others of their rights, starting with marriage and heading into any other arenas the movement finds immoral.
Having viewed the ad, I can't see what the big deal is. Skits like this are common fodder for campaign ads. Were opponents of Prop. 8 supposed to never touch the religious aspect of this? Is it supposed to be unfair to play the Mormon card, considering the role Mormonism has played on the Yes side (e.g., pressing its members to donate and work for the campaign)? Surely the Mormon church and its members never expected to leap into a campaign with this much vocal and financial might, funding it in large part and pushing for it relentlessly, without expecting that they would be viewed as a force that is trying to roll back the clock on gay rights in California. And considering that the Yes on 8 campaign has tried to depict gays and lesbians as attempting to take over elementary schools and force themselves on religious weddings, it's not in a great position to claim bigotry and intolerance, let alone misleading advertising, coming from the other side.
The "missionaries" show up at the front door .... but watch and judge for yourself.
Posted by Karin Klein on November 4, 2008 in California
The ad, which debuted on YouTube and is going out on television today, is certainly the most attention-getting TV spot to criticize the proposition. Most of the ads against Proposition 8 have been extraordinarily tame, unlike the fear-mongering rumors spread by the Yes side.
Not any more. The new ad -- a skit in which two actors playing Mormon missionaries visit the home of a married lesbian couple -- is clearly intended to signal viewers that the Mormon church has been a major player in the Yes campaign. Its message is that the religious right is claiming the power to strip others of their rights, starting with marriage and heading into any other arenas the movement finds immoral.
Having viewed the ad, I can't see what the big deal is. Skits like this are common fodder for campaign ads. Were opponents of Prop. 8 supposed to never touch the religious aspect of this? Is it supposed to be unfair to play the Mormon card, considering the role Mormonism has played on the Yes side (e.g., pressing its members to donate and work for the campaign)? Surely the Mormon church and its members never expected to leap into a campaign with this much vocal and financial might, funding it in large part and pushing for it relentlessly, without expecting that they would be viewed as a force that is trying to roll back the clock on gay rights in California. And considering that the Yes on 8 campaign has tried to depict gays and lesbians as attempting to take over elementary schools and force themselves on religious weddings, it's not in a great position to claim bigotry and intolerance, let alone misleading advertising, coming from the other side.
The "missionaries" show up at the front door .... but watch and judge for yourself.
Posted by Karin Klein on November 4, 2008 in California
Yes on Prop 8 signs disgust me...especially the newer signs
So, why am I seeing signs that say Yes on Prop 8 = Religious Freedom, Yes on Prop 8 = Less Government & Yes on Prop 8 = Freedom of Speech?
Prop 8 isn't about any of those things, it is about rewriting the California Constitution to legalize discrimination. You already have your religious freedom, remember the US Constitution specifically gives you the freedom of religion. And, yes on prop 8 does not equal less government. How could something that requires more government interference equal less government? Prop 8 has nothing to do with freedom of speech, that is something again protected by the US Constitution. All of these signs, and commericals, from Yes on Prop 8 are not only misleading, but they are lies and they are wrong.
Prop 8 has nothing to do with churches, religion, schools or children. If anything, the backers of Prop 8 (predominantly Mormon) are trying to make a government sanctioned, civil marriage about religion, requiring government interference and eliminating rights. It is disgusting, we should not be voting on civil rights, we should not be voting to decide if a part of our population is equal. We should all be equal and if you want to quote religion, how come I am not hearing things like love thy neighbor, that we are all created in God's image (God created homosexuals too), that we should not judge one another and we should treat others the way we want to be treated? What the Yes campaign is doing is in conflict with these basic Christian, if not all religions, principles. They are quoting the Old Testament, which isn't even their book, it is The Hebrew Bible and the Christians stole it to make it their own. Jesus was against everything that the Old Testament stood for and it was prophesized that he would rewrite it. So, if Jesus was against what it stood for then and it was HIS religion's book (remember, Jesus was jewish), then why on earth would he want anyone to be for it or practice it today? Religion is never a good argument for making people unequal, for disciminating against your fellow human beings.
No matter your orientation, whether you ever want to get married, Prop 8 is just fundamentally wrong. I am still in shock and awe that the Yes campaign had an official spokesperson compare the fight for gay marriage to that of Hitler and rise of Nazi Germany. They keep saying that this isn't about hate, bigotry or discrimination, but their own official spokesperson made it clear that this is their very agenda.
How will gay people being allowed to marry hurt anyone? If anything it will strenghthen marriage by allowing more people to live successful married lives, free of discimination...heck, it will probably even lower the divorce rate that heterosexuals have raised to 50%. Gay marriage has been legal in Mass. for 4 years and they haven't fallen into the apocalypse and it has been legal in Calif. for 4 months and still nothing has happened. Other countries: Canada, Spain, Holland, Belguim and South Africa have had gay marriage legal for YEARS and nothing has happened.
So, why, tell me why, give me one good reason why gay marriage shouldn't be legal? However, do not base it on religion or any of the lies from the Yes campaign...this is about a government sanctioned marriage, not one accepted by your church or God, but by the government where there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state and where seperate is not equal.
It is never right to treat a part of the population as a second class, it is never right to be forced to vote on fundamental civil rights and it is never right to make discimination law. I implore you, DO THE RIGHT THING, continue to make everyone equal. You don't need to be for gay marriage to be against Prop 8, you can think that gay marriage is as wrong as you want, but you should be against Prop 8 for the basic reason that we should never make discirmination law. The first two words on the ballot read...Eliminate Right...why would anyone want to live in a society that not only believes that is okay but legally establishes it as okay? If this passes, who will be next?
Vote NO on Prop 8...for your family, for your children, for your friends and for society...don't make us live in a discriminatory state.
Prop 8 isn't about any of those things, it is about rewriting the California Constitution to legalize discrimination. You already have your religious freedom, remember the US Constitution specifically gives you the freedom of religion. And, yes on prop 8 does not equal less government. How could something that requires more government interference equal less government? Prop 8 has nothing to do with freedom of speech, that is something again protected by the US Constitution. All of these signs, and commericals, from Yes on Prop 8 are not only misleading, but they are lies and they are wrong.
Prop 8 has nothing to do with churches, religion, schools or children. If anything, the backers of Prop 8 (predominantly Mormon) are trying to make a government sanctioned, civil marriage about religion, requiring government interference and eliminating rights. It is disgusting, we should not be voting on civil rights, we should not be voting to decide if a part of our population is equal. We should all be equal and if you want to quote religion, how come I am not hearing things like love thy neighbor, that we are all created in God's image (God created homosexuals too), that we should not judge one another and we should treat others the way we want to be treated? What the Yes campaign is doing is in conflict with these basic Christian, if not all religions, principles. They are quoting the Old Testament, which isn't even their book, it is The Hebrew Bible and the Christians stole it to make it their own. Jesus was against everything that the Old Testament stood for and it was prophesized that he would rewrite it. So, if Jesus was against what it stood for then and it was HIS religion's book (remember, Jesus was jewish), then why on earth would he want anyone to be for it or practice it today? Religion is never a good argument for making people unequal, for disciminating against your fellow human beings.
No matter your orientation, whether you ever want to get married, Prop 8 is just fundamentally wrong. I am still in shock and awe that the Yes campaign had an official spokesperson compare the fight for gay marriage to that of Hitler and rise of Nazi Germany. They keep saying that this isn't about hate, bigotry or discrimination, but their own official spokesperson made it clear that this is their very agenda.
How will gay people being allowed to marry hurt anyone? If anything it will strenghthen marriage by allowing more people to live successful married lives, free of discimination...heck, it will probably even lower the divorce rate that heterosexuals have raised to 50%. Gay marriage has been legal in Mass. for 4 years and they haven't fallen into the apocalypse and it has been legal in Calif. for 4 months and still nothing has happened. Other countries: Canada, Spain, Holland, Belguim and South Africa have had gay marriage legal for YEARS and nothing has happened.
So, why, tell me why, give me one good reason why gay marriage shouldn't be legal? However, do not base it on religion or any of the lies from the Yes campaign...this is about a government sanctioned marriage, not one accepted by your church or God, but by the government where there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state and where seperate is not equal.
It is never right to treat a part of the population as a second class, it is never right to be forced to vote on fundamental civil rights and it is never right to make discimination law. I implore you, DO THE RIGHT THING, continue to make everyone equal. You don't need to be for gay marriage to be against Prop 8, you can think that gay marriage is as wrong as you want, but you should be against Prop 8 for the basic reason that we should never make discirmination law. The first two words on the ballot read...Eliminate Right...why would anyone want to live in a society that not only believes that is okay but legally establishes it as okay? If this passes, who will be next?
Vote NO on Prop 8...for your family, for your children, for your friends and for society...don't make us live in a discriminatory state.
Despite heavy turnout few voting problems in OC
By TONY SAAVEDRA, TERI SFORZA, SAM MILLER, JESSICA TURRELL, MARY ANN MILBOURN, and CAMINO PONGA
The Orange County Register
Gay marriage and mechanical breakdowns raised the blood pressure Tuesday at some Orange County polling places in an election marked by hope and frustration.
The debate over Proposition 8 brought police to a few polling places – mainly at schools and churches – where campaigners stretched the law as far as they could.
At Temple Baptist Church in Fullerton, Newport Harbor High in Newport Beach and Don Juan Avila Middle School in Aliso Viejo, the "No on 8" campaigners argued that state law allowed them to campaign as long as they were 100 feet from the entrance to the polling area.
Church and school officials maintained that they had the right to remove all electioneers from their property, even if they were a legal distance away from the voting.
In most cases, the Proposition 8 advocates and protesters left, but not before pressing the issue.
At Westminster's Precinct 003941 on Magnolia Street, the Christian Reform Church of Orange County was wrapped in "Yes on 8{Prime} signs – all the legal distance away from the polling area. The signs formed a veritable fence of traditional families throwing their arms up in elation.
At the end of the phalanx was a plain and sober "VOTE" sign, denoting an official polling place.
Even some pro-8 voters thought the display a bit much but the county Registrar said the signs were legal and the signs were still there at mid-day.
Not so at Sea Coast Grace Church in Cypress, where staffers plucked Yes on Prop. 8 signs like so many weeds Tuesday morning. "We wanted our campus to be a neutral environment for people not to be hassled," said Cody Surratt, a pastor.
Prop. 8, obviously, elicits a great deal of passion. Longtime Republican activist Kenneth Fisher reports that about 10 Yes on 8 signs that sprouted at the corner of Bixby and Brookhurst in Garden Grove were destroyed overnight. Reports of vandalized signs have been furiously reported by both sides.
While massive confusion didn't materialize, many individuals were flustered at the polls
At Westpark and Turtle Rock elementary schools in Irvine, most of the voting machines were out of order, causing long lines and forcing voters to use paper ballots.
When the machines sputtered at the Alipaz Street polling site in San Juan Capistrano, poll workers deftly turned to the paper ballots – except nobody had anything to write with.
Billy Klein has been moving from motel to motel lately, and hasn't had a permanent address. He registered to vote with a post office box in Costa Mesa, and was upset when he arrived at his polling place and was told that post office boxes weren't acceptable addresses. He was offered a provisional ballot instead of a regular ballot. That was upsetting; about one-third of the provisional ballots cast in the last presidential election were never counted, he said.
In the end, Klein cast a provisional ballot.
Registrar of Voters spokesman Brett Rowley said that homeless voters have every right to vote, too. They can even use a post office box as their mailing address - so long as they list a physical address as well. It can be the location of a park, it can be a homeless shelter, it can be an intersection - it just has to be an actual place.
The Orange County Register
Gay marriage and mechanical breakdowns raised the blood pressure Tuesday at some Orange County polling places in an election marked by hope and frustration.
The debate over Proposition 8 brought police to a few polling places – mainly at schools and churches – where campaigners stretched the law as far as they could.
At Temple Baptist Church in Fullerton, Newport Harbor High in Newport Beach and Don Juan Avila Middle School in Aliso Viejo, the "No on 8" campaigners argued that state law allowed them to campaign as long as they were 100 feet from the entrance to the polling area.
Church and school officials maintained that they had the right to remove all electioneers from their property, even if they were a legal distance away from the voting.
In most cases, the Proposition 8 advocates and protesters left, but not before pressing the issue.
At Westminster's Precinct 003941 on Magnolia Street, the Christian Reform Church of Orange County was wrapped in "Yes on 8{Prime} signs – all the legal distance away from the polling area. The signs formed a veritable fence of traditional families throwing their arms up in elation.
At the end of the phalanx was a plain and sober "VOTE" sign, denoting an official polling place.
Even some pro-8 voters thought the display a bit much but the county Registrar said the signs were legal and the signs were still there at mid-day.
Not so at Sea Coast Grace Church in Cypress, where staffers plucked Yes on Prop. 8 signs like so many weeds Tuesday morning. "We wanted our campus to be a neutral environment for people not to be hassled," said Cody Surratt, a pastor.
Prop. 8, obviously, elicits a great deal of passion. Longtime Republican activist Kenneth Fisher reports that about 10 Yes on 8 signs that sprouted at the corner of Bixby and Brookhurst in Garden Grove were destroyed overnight. Reports of vandalized signs have been furiously reported by both sides.
While massive confusion didn't materialize, many individuals were flustered at the polls
At Westpark and Turtle Rock elementary schools in Irvine, most of the voting machines were out of order, causing long lines and forcing voters to use paper ballots.
When the machines sputtered at the Alipaz Street polling site in San Juan Capistrano, poll workers deftly turned to the paper ballots – except nobody had anything to write with.
Billy Klein has been moving from motel to motel lately, and hasn't had a permanent address. He registered to vote with a post office box in Costa Mesa, and was upset when he arrived at his polling place and was told that post office boxes weren't acceptable addresses. He was offered a provisional ballot instead of a regular ballot. That was upsetting; about one-third of the provisional ballots cast in the last presidential election were never counted, he said.
In the end, Klein cast a provisional ballot.
Registrar of Voters spokesman Brett Rowley said that homeless voters have every right to vote, too. They can even use a post office box as their mailing address - so long as they list a physical address as well. It can be the location of a park, it can be a homeless shelter, it can be an intersection - it just has to be an actual place.
Nation watches as CA votes on Prop. 8
Tuesday, November 04, 2008 | 2:41 PM
LOS ANGELES -- Public attitudes about sexual orientation and civil rights faced a history-making test Tuesday as California voters weighed whether to outlaw same-sex marriage five months after gay couples won the right to wed in the state.
With polls showing a close contest and high national interest in the outcome, supporters and opponents of Proposition 8 rallied voters to the polls with prayer services, recorded appeals from celebrities and what was said to be an unprecedented door-knocking campaign on both sides. The measure seeks to overturn the California Supreme Court decision in June that legalized same-sex marriage. It would change the state Constitution to limit marriage to a woman and a man. It marks the first time voters have had the chance to ban gay marriage retroactively. Spending for and against the amendment has surpassed $70 million, making it the most expensive social-issues campaign in U.S. history and the most expensive campaign this year outside the race for the White House. The election has pitched a coalition of Roman Catholic, Mormon and evangelical Christians against gay rights activists and their allies. The No on 8 campaign has received key endorsements, including those of California's major newspapers, its two U.S. senators and the League of Women Voters. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger also opposes Proposition 8. The Yes side has responded with the organizational might of the state's churches. Proposition 8's sponsors said they planned to have 100,000 people staffing phone banks and working near polling places on Election Day, compared with 10,000 volunteers working to get out the vote for the No side. Both campaigns were making extra efforts to court Hispanic and black voters, who are expected to turn out in large numbers for Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama. Polls show they are more inclined than whites and Asians to support Proposition 8. The vote comes eight years after California voters passed Proposition 22, which amended state law to limit marriage to a man and a woman. The state Supreme Court overturned that law in June, prompting same-sex opponents to seek a constitutional ban. Thirty years ago, California voters rejected a ballot initiative that would have prohibited gays and lesbians from teaching in public schools. The so-called Briggs Initiative failed 58 percent to 42 percent.
LOS ANGELES -- Public attitudes about sexual orientation and civil rights faced a history-making test Tuesday as California voters weighed whether to outlaw same-sex marriage five months after gay couples won the right to wed in the state.
With polls showing a close contest and high national interest in the outcome, supporters and opponents of Proposition 8 rallied voters to the polls with prayer services, recorded appeals from celebrities and what was said to be an unprecedented door-knocking campaign on both sides. The measure seeks to overturn the California Supreme Court decision in June that legalized same-sex marriage. It would change the state Constitution to limit marriage to a woman and a man. It marks the first time voters have had the chance to ban gay marriage retroactively. Spending for and against the amendment has surpassed $70 million, making it the most expensive social-issues campaign in U.S. history and the most expensive campaign this year outside the race for the White House. The election has pitched a coalition of Roman Catholic, Mormon and evangelical Christians against gay rights activists and their allies. The No on 8 campaign has received key endorsements, including those of California's major newspapers, its two U.S. senators and the League of Women Voters. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger also opposes Proposition 8. The Yes side has responded with the organizational might of the state's churches. Proposition 8's sponsors said they planned to have 100,000 people staffing phone banks and working near polling places on Election Day, compared with 10,000 volunteers working to get out the vote for the No side. Both campaigns were making extra efforts to court Hispanic and black voters, who are expected to turn out in large numbers for Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama. Polls show they are more inclined than whites and Asians to support Proposition 8. The vote comes eight years after California voters passed Proposition 22, which amended state law to limit marriage to a man and a woman. The state Supreme Court overturned that law in June, prompting same-sex opponents to seek a constitutional ban. Thirty years ago, California voters rejected a ballot initiative that would have prohibited gays and lesbians from teaching in public schools. The so-called Briggs Initiative failed 58 percent to 42 percent.
Despite Obama Saying No, Yes on 8 Continues to Use Him
By Zach Behrens
Friday: African-American voters receive mailers with Barack Obama supposedly supporting Prop 8, the ballot initiative that seeks to eliminate gay marriage.
Saturday: The Obama-Biden campaign clarifies their position on Proposition 8: “The Obama-Biden ticket opposes Proposition 8 and similar discriminatory constitutional amendments that could roll back the civil rights he and Sen. Biden strongly believe should be afforded to all Americans." No on Prop 8 releases new ad featuring Obama, Schwarzenegger and Sen. Dianne Feinstein.
Monday: Robocalls are reportedly sent to to phones in Chino (and presumably other communities) with Barack Obama's voice. The phone ad says he's against same-sex marriage and that the public should vote yes on 8, which is a vote against gay marriage.
Today: Supporters of Prop 8 are okay with 2,000 arranged marriages as part today's marriage event--The Moonies--in Washington DC. Today, Rev. Michael Jenkins of the church that organizes the event put "strong support" behind Prop 8. The Family Church of America, was founded by the Reverend Dr. and Mrs. Sun Myung Moon.
Friday: African-American voters receive mailers with Barack Obama supposedly supporting Prop 8, the ballot initiative that seeks to eliminate gay marriage.
Saturday: The Obama-Biden campaign clarifies their position on Proposition 8: “The Obama-Biden ticket opposes Proposition 8 and similar discriminatory constitutional amendments that could roll back the civil rights he and Sen. Biden strongly believe should be afforded to all Americans." No on Prop 8 releases new ad featuring Obama, Schwarzenegger and Sen. Dianne Feinstein.
Monday: Robocalls are reportedly sent to to phones in Chino (and presumably other communities) with Barack Obama's voice. The phone ad says he's against same-sex marriage and that the public should vote yes on 8, which is a vote against gay marriage.
Today: Supporters of Prop 8 are okay with 2,000 arranged marriages as part today's marriage event--The Moonies--in Washington DC. Today, Rev. Michael Jenkins of the church that organizes the event put "strong support" behind Prop 8. The Family Church of America, was founded by the Reverend Dr. and Mrs. Sun Myung Moon.
No on 8 Volunteers Battle Across California in Final Crucial Hours
By Ross von Metzke, Advocate.com | Article Date: 11/04/2008 1:20 PM
Polls in California have been open for more than six hours, and in areas of the state with dense LGBT populations, voters are reportedly waiting three hours in line, and their wait is getting longer.
In Los Angeles, No on 8 is handing out flyers to potential voters urging them to vote No on 8 because it’s “unfair” and “wrong” -- and because Barack Obama, Dianne Feinstein and Arnold Schwarzenegger all oppose the proposition.
Nowhere on the flyer does it say anything about the gay community. It simply tells voters that it is “wrong to eliminate fundamental rights.”
Volunteers for No on 8 are blanketing the city to get the word out. In more traditionally conservative areas including San Diego and the Central Valley, some are the only volunteers in their area on hand to persuade people to vote against the proposition.
In Los Angeles, LA Gay and Lesbian Center CEO Lorri Jean received word that a school principal was chasing No on 8 volunteers away from poling places and ripping up No on 8 signs. LAPD was called and sent a reminder to poling places that No on 8 is allowed to have volunteers hand out literature so long as they stayed more than 100 feet away from the polls.
In Pico Rivera, no official Yes on 8 people seem to be campaigning near the polls… but a few people are lingering near poling places “damning” gay souls and yelling religious rhetoric at voters. According to reports from the scene, about 20-percent of voters are uninformed on Prop. 8.
Polls in California have been open for more than six hours, and in areas of the state with dense LGBT populations, voters are reportedly waiting three hours in line, and their wait is getting longer.
In Los Angeles, No on 8 is handing out flyers to potential voters urging them to vote No on 8 because it’s “unfair” and “wrong” -- and because Barack Obama, Dianne Feinstein and Arnold Schwarzenegger all oppose the proposition.
Nowhere on the flyer does it say anything about the gay community. It simply tells voters that it is “wrong to eliminate fundamental rights.”
Volunteers for No on 8 are blanketing the city to get the word out. In more traditionally conservative areas including San Diego and the Central Valley, some are the only volunteers in their area on hand to persuade people to vote against the proposition.
In Los Angeles, LA Gay and Lesbian Center CEO Lorri Jean received word that a school principal was chasing No on 8 volunteers away from poling places and ripping up No on 8 signs. LAPD was called and sent a reminder to poling places that No on 8 is allowed to have volunteers hand out literature so long as they stayed more than 100 feet away from the polls.
In Pico Rivera, no official Yes on 8 people seem to be campaigning near the polls… but a few people are lingering near poling places “damning” gay souls and yelling religious rhetoric at voters. According to reports from the scene, about 20-percent of voters are uninformed on Prop. 8.
Same-sex measure rankles polling places
November 4th, 2008, 12:39 pm · posted by Tony Saavedra, Register investigative reporter
With voting down to the wire, critics and supporters of Proposition 8 are fighting like, well, an old married couple. So emotional is the debate that several times this morning police were called to polling places to settle problems involving the same-sex marriage measure.
It seems in some instances, Democratic poll watchers were confused with anti-Prop. 8 campaigners — and police asked everybody to leave.
Reporter Sam Miller , who is spending election day with the local Democrats, said “No on 8″ advocates were booted this morning from Don Juan Avila Middle School in Aliso Viejo. Principal Shawn Lowman tells the Watchdog that he asked the folks to leave because they were walking around campus, handing out fliers. Steve Bolinger, an attorney for the Democratic Party, said the group is legally allowed to campaign on campus, as long as they are 100 feet away from the entrance to the polling area and not bothering any classrooms.
“School officials have a tendency to want to panic and kick them off the property,” Bolinger said.
That appears to be the case at Newport Harbor High School in Newport Beach, where police were called to disburse Democratic poll watchers who were accused of campaigning against Prop. 8. Democratic officials said poll watchers merely monitor the voting list and contact party members who have not voted. Poll watchers do not campaign or approach anyone, they said. But Newport Beach police asked them to leave.
At SeaCoast Grace Church in Cypress, junior high pastor Cody Surratt said church officials asked poll watchers to hit the road as well as anti-Prop. 8 folks who were handing out literature. Church staff also took down “Yes on 8″ signs that were planted on church property.
“We wanted our campus to be a neutral environment for people not to be hassled,” Surratt told Miller.
In Fullerton, things got tense at Temple Baptist Church when three people campaigning against
Proposition 8 refused the pastor’s order to leave. The campaigners were well past the 100-foot limit from the polling area, but they were still on church property. Registrar Neal Kelley (far right, with Jeff LeTourneau of ‘No on 8′ on the left and Democratic attorney Steve Bollinger in the middle) pronounced the problem a matter of private property. Police agreed. But the leaflet-bearing trio maintained that, at least for the day, the entire church - not just the polling area - was public.
As of 12:44 p.m., the church was weighing its options.
With voting down to the wire, critics and supporters of Proposition 8 are fighting like, well, an old married couple. So emotional is the debate that several times this morning police were called to polling places to settle problems involving the same-sex marriage measure.
It seems in some instances, Democratic poll watchers were confused with anti-Prop. 8 campaigners — and police asked everybody to leave.
Reporter Sam Miller , who is spending election day with the local Democrats, said “No on 8″ advocates were booted this morning from Don Juan Avila Middle School in Aliso Viejo. Principal Shawn Lowman tells the Watchdog that he asked the folks to leave because they were walking around campus, handing out fliers. Steve Bolinger, an attorney for the Democratic Party, said the group is legally allowed to campaign on campus, as long as they are 100 feet away from the entrance to the polling area and not bothering any classrooms.
“School officials have a tendency to want to panic and kick them off the property,” Bolinger said.
That appears to be the case at Newport Harbor High School in Newport Beach, where police were called to disburse Democratic poll watchers who were accused of campaigning against Prop. 8. Democratic officials said poll watchers merely monitor the voting list and contact party members who have not voted. Poll watchers do not campaign or approach anyone, they said. But Newport Beach police asked them to leave.
At SeaCoast Grace Church in Cypress, junior high pastor Cody Surratt said church officials asked poll watchers to hit the road as well as anti-Prop. 8 folks who were handing out literature. Church staff also took down “Yes on 8″ signs that were planted on church property.
“We wanted our campus to be a neutral environment for people not to be hassled,” Surratt told Miller.
In Fullerton, things got tense at Temple Baptist Church when three people campaigning against
Proposition 8 refused the pastor’s order to leave. The campaigners were well past the 100-foot limit from the polling area, but they were still on church property. Registrar Neal Kelley (far right, with Jeff LeTourneau of ‘No on 8′ on the left and Democratic attorney Steve Bollinger in the middle) pronounced the problem a matter of private property. Police agreed. But the leaflet-bearing trio maintained that, at least for the day, the entire church - not just the polling area - was public.
As of 12:44 p.m., the church was weighing its options.
Nation watches as a divided California prepares to decide on same-sex marriage
Supporters and opponents have mounted a costly campaign over Proposition 8, which would amend state Constitution to ban gay marriage.
By Jessica Garrison
1:34 PM PST, November 4, 2008
After the most expensive campaign in state history over a social issue, Californians began voting Tuesday on the divisive and deeply emotional issue of same-sex marriage.
Proposition 8, which would amend the California Constitution to ban gay marriage, has been extremely close in recent polling, with the Field Poll last week showing 49% against and 44% in favor of the measure, with 7% undecided.
Proposition 8: Your guide to the gay... Tracking the moneyThat deep divide was reflected at polling places throughout Southern California.
Colleen Cross, 53, principal of Garden Grove High School, said that in addition to voting for the presidential ticket of John McCain and Sarah Palin she was eager to vote for Proposition 8.
"I'm conservative, and family values are important to me. I see the country taking a real liberal swing and it scares me to death," said Cross. "The moral center has moved so far left that I can hardly recognize my country anymore," she said.
Mark Lescroart, a neuroscience grad student at USC, went to his Silver Lake polling place this morning to vote for Barack Obama and against Proposition 8, which he called "a basic civil rights issue."
"I am a little bit sad it even got on the ballot in the first place," he said.
Along with the presidential race, the fight over gay marriage is among nation's most closely watched contests. Volunteers from around the country have staffed phone banks, and campaign contributions have come from every state in the nation to the "no" campaign, and every state but Vermont to the "yes" side.
The two sides raised nearly $74 million and blanketed the airwaves for weeks with expensive television and radio commercials.
The battle has also been waged on street corners and front lawns, from the pulpits of churches and synagogues and -- unusual for a fight over a social issue -- in the boardrooms of many of the state's largest corporations.
Most of the state's highest-profile political leaders -- including both U.S. senators and the mayors of San Francisco, San Diego and Los Angeles -- along with the editorial pages of most major newspapers, have opposed the measure. PG&E, Apple and other companies contributed money to fight the proposition, and the heads of Silicon Valley companies including Google and Yahoo took out a newspaper ad opposing it.
Many argued, as former President Bill Clinton did in a taped call to millions of registered voters in the days before the election, that the measure was discriminatory because it would strip rights from gay couples and treat them differently from heterosexual couples.
"If I know one thing about California, I know that is not what you're about. That is not what America is about. Please vote "no" on 8. It's unfair and it's wrong," Clinton said.
At some polling places Tuesday, Proposition 8 opponents stood by handing out cards to voters. "The polls show there are still about 10% of our voters who are confused about which is yes and which is no," said a volunteer at a polling place near Pico and Fairfax. "That could make a difference."
On the other side have been an array of conservative organizations, including the Knights of Columbus, Focus on the Family and the American Family Assn., along with tens of thousands of small donors, including many who responded to urging from Mormon, Catholic and evangelical clergy. An early October filing by the "yes" campaign reported so many contributions that the secretary of state's campaign finance website crashed.
Proponents also organized a massive grass-roots effort. Campaign officials said they distributed more than 1.1 million lawn signs for Proposition 8 -- although an effort to stage a massive, simultaneous lawn-sign planting in late September failed after production problems in China delayed hundreds of thousands of signs.
For weeks before the election, thousands of volunteers also gathered on street corners around the state waving "Yes on 8" banners -- often squaring off against "No on 8" volunteers on opposite corners.
Research and polling showed that many voters were against gay marriage, but afraid that saying so would make them seem "discriminatory" or "not cool," said Jeff Flint, a campaign strategist for Proposition 8, so proponents hoped to show them they were not alone.
Perhaps more powerfully, the Proposition 8 campaign also seized on the issue of education, arguing in a series of advertisements and mailers that children would be subjected to a pro-gay curriculum if the measure was not approved.
"Mom, guess what I learned in school today?" a little girl said in one spot. "I learned how a prince married a prince."
As the girl's mother made a horrified face, a voice-over said: "Think it can't happen? It's already happened. . . . Teaching about gay marriage will happen unless we pass Proposition 8."
The "no" side countered with ads that included state Supt. of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell saying the proposition had nothing to do with schools, and that "schools aren't required to teach anything about marriage."
At polling places Tuesday, people on both sides of the issue said they thought about children when deciding how to vote.
First-time voter Mike Johnson, 22, said at his Baldwin Hills precinct that he's voting for Obama but yes on Proposition 8, in part because of "when I have kids," he said. "If it's not right in the Bible, it's not right in society."
In South Pasadena, bankruptcy lawyer Leonard Pena said his voting this year was driven by his 21-month-old daughter. "Her future is really important to me," he said. "Our country deserves something different."
Even though he and his girlfriend haven't gotten married, Pena said, he believes that people should be able to marry whomever they want.
"I really think it's more about love than marriage," he said. "Marriage isn't that important to me, but it may be to some people."
Jessica Garrison is a Times staff writer
jessica.garrison@latimes.com
Times staff writers Mike Anton, Anna Gorman, David Lauter, Joanna Lin and Harriet Ryan contributed to this article.
By Jessica Garrison
1:34 PM PST, November 4, 2008
After the most expensive campaign in state history over a social issue, Californians began voting Tuesday on the divisive and deeply emotional issue of same-sex marriage.
Proposition 8, which would amend the California Constitution to ban gay marriage, has been extremely close in recent polling, with the Field Poll last week showing 49% against and 44% in favor of the measure, with 7% undecided.
Proposition 8: Your guide to the gay... Tracking the moneyThat deep divide was reflected at polling places throughout Southern California.
Colleen Cross, 53, principal of Garden Grove High School, said that in addition to voting for the presidential ticket of John McCain and Sarah Palin she was eager to vote for Proposition 8.
"I'm conservative, and family values are important to me. I see the country taking a real liberal swing and it scares me to death," said Cross. "The moral center has moved so far left that I can hardly recognize my country anymore," she said.
Mark Lescroart, a neuroscience grad student at USC, went to his Silver Lake polling place this morning to vote for Barack Obama and against Proposition 8, which he called "a basic civil rights issue."
"I am a little bit sad it even got on the ballot in the first place," he said.
Along with the presidential race, the fight over gay marriage is among nation's most closely watched contests. Volunteers from around the country have staffed phone banks, and campaign contributions have come from every state in the nation to the "no" campaign, and every state but Vermont to the "yes" side.
The two sides raised nearly $74 million and blanketed the airwaves for weeks with expensive television and radio commercials.
The battle has also been waged on street corners and front lawns, from the pulpits of churches and synagogues and -- unusual for a fight over a social issue -- in the boardrooms of many of the state's largest corporations.
Most of the state's highest-profile political leaders -- including both U.S. senators and the mayors of San Francisco, San Diego and Los Angeles -- along with the editorial pages of most major newspapers, have opposed the measure. PG&E, Apple and other companies contributed money to fight the proposition, and the heads of Silicon Valley companies including Google and Yahoo took out a newspaper ad opposing it.
Many argued, as former President Bill Clinton did in a taped call to millions of registered voters in the days before the election, that the measure was discriminatory because it would strip rights from gay couples and treat them differently from heterosexual couples.
"If I know one thing about California, I know that is not what you're about. That is not what America is about. Please vote "no" on 8. It's unfair and it's wrong," Clinton said.
At some polling places Tuesday, Proposition 8 opponents stood by handing out cards to voters. "The polls show there are still about 10% of our voters who are confused about which is yes and which is no," said a volunteer at a polling place near Pico and Fairfax. "That could make a difference."
On the other side have been an array of conservative organizations, including the Knights of Columbus, Focus on the Family and the American Family Assn., along with tens of thousands of small donors, including many who responded to urging from Mormon, Catholic and evangelical clergy. An early October filing by the "yes" campaign reported so many contributions that the secretary of state's campaign finance website crashed.
Proponents also organized a massive grass-roots effort. Campaign officials said they distributed more than 1.1 million lawn signs for Proposition 8 -- although an effort to stage a massive, simultaneous lawn-sign planting in late September failed after production problems in China delayed hundreds of thousands of signs.
For weeks before the election, thousands of volunteers also gathered on street corners around the state waving "Yes on 8" banners -- often squaring off against "No on 8" volunteers on opposite corners.
Research and polling showed that many voters were against gay marriage, but afraid that saying so would make them seem "discriminatory" or "not cool," said Jeff Flint, a campaign strategist for Proposition 8, so proponents hoped to show them they were not alone.
Perhaps more powerfully, the Proposition 8 campaign also seized on the issue of education, arguing in a series of advertisements and mailers that children would be subjected to a pro-gay curriculum if the measure was not approved.
"Mom, guess what I learned in school today?" a little girl said in one spot. "I learned how a prince married a prince."
As the girl's mother made a horrified face, a voice-over said: "Think it can't happen? It's already happened. . . . Teaching about gay marriage will happen unless we pass Proposition 8."
The "no" side countered with ads that included state Supt. of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell saying the proposition had nothing to do with schools, and that "schools aren't required to teach anything about marriage."
At polling places Tuesday, people on both sides of the issue said they thought about children when deciding how to vote.
First-time voter Mike Johnson, 22, said at his Baldwin Hills precinct that he's voting for Obama but yes on Proposition 8, in part because of "when I have kids," he said. "If it's not right in the Bible, it's not right in society."
In South Pasadena, bankruptcy lawyer Leonard Pena said his voting this year was driven by his 21-month-old daughter. "Her future is really important to me," he said. "Our country deserves something different."
Even though he and his girlfriend haven't gotten married, Pena said, he believes that people should be able to marry whomever they want.
"I really think it's more about love than marriage," he said. "Marriage isn't that important to me, but it may be to some people."
Jessica Garrison is a Times staff writer
jessica.garrison@latimes.com
Times staff writers Mike Anton, Anna Gorman, David Lauter, Joanna Lin and Harriet Ryan contributed to this article.
Statement on Courage Campaign Ad from NO on Prop 8
Tuesday November 4, 4:54 pm ET
SACRAMENTO, Calif., Nov. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- The ad has been produced by an organization not affiliated with our campaign. Mr. Schubert should direct his questions to the organization behind the ad.
As we have stated previously, the Mormon Church deserves the same respect as any other religion. But it is wrong for the Mormons to push their views about marriage on the rest of California through the ballot box.
We note Mr. Schubert has failed to denounce despicable statements by individuals affiliated with the Prop. 8 campaign.
At an official Prop. 8 rally at the State Capitol in Sacramento last week, a Prop. 8 lawyer compared the fight against gay marriage to the fight against Hitler. That outrageous statement was denounced by the Anti-Defamation League but not by the Prop. 8 campaign. Instead, the campaign Web site described the event as successful and thanked attendees.
At the same Prop 8 rally, another speaker said homosexuals "can't reproduce, so they must recruit our children."
Both videos are posted to our YouTube channel.
Source: NO on Prop 8
SACRAMENTO, Calif., Nov. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- The ad has been produced by an organization not affiliated with our campaign. Mr. Schubert should direct his questions to the organization behind the ad.
As we have stated previously, the Mormon Church deserves the same respect as any other religion. But it is wrong for the Mormons to push their views about marriage on the rest of California through the ballot box.
We note Mr. Schubert has failed to denounce despicable statements by individuals affiliated with the Prop. 8 campaign.
At an official Prop. 8 rally at the State Capitol in Sacramento last week, a Prop. 8 lawyer compared the fight against gay marriage to the fight against Hitler. That outrageous statement was denounced by the Anti-Defamation League but not by the Prop. 8 campaign. Instead, the campaign Web site described the event as successful and thanked attendees.
At the same Prop 8 rally, another speaker said homosexuals "can't reproduce, so they must recruit our children."
Both videos are posted to our YouTube channel.
Source: NO on Prop 8
Gaywheels.com Gets Flooded By CA Prop 8 Advertisements
By colin November 4th, 2008
Yesterday, the "Yes on Prop 8" campaign, which aims to eliminate the ability of same sex couples to get married in the state of California, managed to hijack all of Gaywheels.com's ad space. Publisher Joe LaMuraglia quickly issued a statement condemning the action, and acted quickly to block www.protectmarriage.com from posting any further advertisements on his site.
Explained LaMuraglia, "we do our best to remain neutral when it comes to politics." He said that his site's mission is to encourage users to spend money on gay-friendly companies, not to take political sides or preach viewpoints to site visitors: "consumers come to Gaywheels.com to read about cars and trucks, not to be bombarded with ads about politics."
Gaywheels.com apologizes about the brief snafu, especially to visitors from the state of California who might have been offended. LaMuraglia again clarified that the ads "in no way" reflect Gaywheels.com's political leanings, as well as being "diametrically opposed" to the site's value system.
The gay-targeted Web site will be investigating how their ad space was temporarily hijacked, and will take any necessary legal action pending the results of the investigation. LaMuraglia ended his statement with a zinger, musing as to whether the "Yes on Prop 8" campaign's expenditure on a gay-centric Web site was "a sign of stupidity or desperation."--Colin Mathews
Yesterday, the "Yes on Prop 8" campaign, which aims to eliminate the ability of same sex couples to get married in the state of California, managed to hijack all of Gaywheels.com's ad space. Publisher Joe LaMuraglia quickly issued a statement condemning the action, and acted quickly to block www.protectmarriage.com from posting any further advertisements on his site.
Explained LaMuraglia, "we do our best to remain neutral when it comes to politics." He said that his site's mission is to encourage users to spend money on gay-friendly companies, not to take political sides or preach viewpoints to site visitors: "consumers come to Gaywheels.com to read about cars and trucks, not to be bombarded with ads about politics."
Gaywheels.com apologizes about the brief snafu, especially to visitors from the state of California who might have been offended. LaMuraglia again clarified that the ads "in no way" reflect Gaywheels.com's political leanings, as well as being "diametrically opposed" to the site's value system.
The gay-targeted Web site will be investigating how their ad space was temporarily hijacked, and will take any necessary legal action pending the results of the investigation. LaMuraglia ended his statement with a zinger, musing as to whether the "Yes on Prop 8" campaign's expenditure on a gay-centric Web site was "a sign of stupidity or desperation."--Colin Mathews
Prop. 8 draws national attention
By Greg Mellen, Staff writer
Article Launched: 11/04/2008 11:23:26 AM PST
LONG BEACH - The nation was keeping an eye trained on California as Proposition 8, the state initiative that would ban same-sex marriages, hit the polls.
The run-up to Election Day saw both sides of the issue hammering away at each other on the airwaves with advertising expected to top $70 million.
Across the state Saturday and Sunday, groups on both sides of the issue gathered for rallies, while in religious communities reverends, priests, rabbis and imams stated their cases.
In Long Beach, about 400 Proposition 8 opponents gathered at Bixby Park for a rally concluded by a same-sex marriage ceremony.
Meanwhile, across town at the Traffic Circle, about two dozen supporters of the initiative gathered and waved signs urging motorists to honk their approval.
Proposition 8, which would change the state consitution to define marriage as being between a man and a woman only, has been an incendiary, divisive and highly politicized measure since its inception.
On Election Day, little had changed.
Although the measure has been on the losing side of most polls, many have showed it surging lately.
The latest nonpartisan Field Poll, showed voters rejecting the proposition 44 percent to 49 percent, but that's a 6 percent switch since September when the measure trailed 38 percent to 55 percent. The remaining 7 percent was undecided.
The Public Policy Institute of California found Proposition 8 losing 52 percent to 44 percent, although that showed a 3 point swing from September when the measure was failing 55 percent to 41 percent.
Meanwhile, the California Majority Report on Oct. 17 said the SurveyUSA poll had Prop 8 ahead 48-45.
The reports had 2 to 4 point margins of error and undecided voters making the measure a toss-up entering the polls.
Long Beach activist and radio personality Karel Bouley, the host of the Karel Show on KGO and known for his incendiary commentary, said he wasn't surprised at the late rally.
"Why would I be surprised with all the money that's going in," Karel, who goes by his first name professionally, said of the pro-Prop 8 surge. "Where money goes in, idiots will follow."
Karel says the issue isn't about marriage at all but about basic constitutional notions of equality.
"They're thinking of removing equal protection under the law from the constitution," Karel says of proponents of the law. "I think our founders would be turning over."
Some proponents of the measure remained stung by the vitriol.
James George, an Alamitos Heights homeowner who had several signs favoring the measure swiped from his yard, said he has been surprised the vehemence of the opposition.
But he remains steadfast.
"I am a Christian, and it is stated in the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman, period," George says.
He also is persuaded by the argument that same-sex marriage will be taught in schools.
In an earlier interview, George Fessler, executive pastor at Life Center Church in Lakewood, told the Press-Telegram he wants to see California return to a traditional definition of marriage.
"Domestic partnerships have all of the rights and benefits of marriage relationships," he said, "but to call it marriage historically, and from a faith perspective, obviously, it's inappropriate."
Still troubling to many, even at the polls was lingering confusion about what yes and no votes meant.
San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown was reported to err recently when talking about the issue and appealing for the importance of protecting the rights of same-sex couples with a "yes" vote.
Brown intended to urge a "no" vote.
Observers on both sides of Proposition 8 worry voters will be confused by a choice in which a no vote means yes to gay marriage and a yes means no to gay marriage.
Opponents have tried to reframe the issue with, among other strategies, an advertisement in which Senator Dianne Feinstein urges voting no to discrimination.
Karel said he thought the courts and society had moved beyond Proposition 8.
"It worries me that we live in an atmosphere where we still have this debate," he said.
In 2000, more than 60 percent of California voters voted for Proposition 22, which defined marriage as between a man and woman, but it was overturned by the state Supreme Court.
Article Launched: 11/04/2008 11:23:26 AM PST
LONG BEACH - The nation was keeping an eye trained on California as Proposition 8, the state initiative that would ban same-sex marriages, hit the polls.
The run-up to Election Day saw both sides of the issue hammering away at each other on the airwaves with advertising expected to top $70 million.
Across the state Saturday and Sunday, groups on both sides of the issue gathered for rallies, while in religious communities reverends, priests, rabbis and imams stated their cases.
In Long Beach, about 400 Proposition 8 opponents gathered at Bixby Park for a rally concluded by a same-sex marriage ceremony.
Meanwhile, across town at the Traffic Circle, about two dozen supporters of the initiative gathered and waved signs urging motorists to honk their approval.
Proposition 8, which would change the state consitution to define marriage as being between a man and a woman only, has been an incendiary, divisive and highly politicized measure since its inception.
On Election Day, little had changed.
Although the measure has been on the losing side of most polls, many have showed it surging lately.
The latest nonpartisan Field Poll, showed voters rejecting the proposition 44 percent to 49 percent, but that's a 6 percent switch since September when the measure trailed 38 percent to 55 percent. The remaining 7 percent was undecided.
The Public Policy Institute of California found Proposition 8 losing 52 percent to 44 percent, although that showed a 3 point swing from September when the measure was failing 55 percent to 41 percent.
Meanwhile, the California Majority Report on Oct. 17 said the SurveyUSA poll had Prop 8 ahead 48-45.
The reports had 2 to 4 point margins of error and undecided voters making the measure a toss-up entering the polls.
Long Beach activist and radio personality Karel Bouley, the host of the Karel Show on KGO and known for his incendiary commentary, said he wasn't surprised at the late rally.
"Why would I be surprised with all the money that's going in," Karel, who goes by his first name professionally, said of the pro-Prop 8 surge. "Where money goes in, idiots will follow."
Karel says the issue isn't about marriage at all but about basic constitutional notions of equality.
"They're thinking of removing equal protection under the law from the constitution," Karel says of proponents of the law. "I think our founders would be turning over."
Some proponents of the measure remained stung by the vitriol.
James George, an Alamitos Heights homeowner who had several signs favoring the measure swiped from his yard, said he has been surprised the vehemence of the opposition.
But he remains steadfast.
"I am a Christian, and it is stated in the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman, period," George says.
He also is persuaded by the argument that same-sex marriage will be taught in schools.
In an earlier interview, George Fessler, executive pastor at Life Center Church in Lakewood, told the Press-Telegram he wants to see California return to a traditional definition of marriage.
"Domestic partnerships have all of the rights and benefits of marriage relationships," he said, "but to call it marriage historically, and from a faith perspective, obviously, it's inappropriate."
Still troubling to many, even at the polls was lingering confusion about what yes and no votes meant.
San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown was reported to err recently when talking about the issue and appealing for the importance of protecting the rights of same-sex couples with a "yes" vote.
Brown intended to urge a "no" vote.
Observers on both sides of Proposition 8 worry voters will be confused by a choice in which a no vote means yes to gay marriage and a yes means no to gay marriage.
Opponents have tried to reframe the issue with, among other strategies, an advertisement in which Senator Dianne Feinstein urges voting no to discrimination.
Karel said he thought the courts and society had moved beyond Proposition 8.
"It worries me that we live in an atmosphere where we still have this debate," he said.
In 2000, more than 60 percent of California voters voted for Proposition 22, which defined marriage as between a man and woman, but it was overturned by the state Supreme Court.
Church and state collide at this polling place
From our reporters Jessica Turrell and Sam Miller:
Voters in Westminster’s Precinct 003941 perform their civic duty today at the Christian Reform Church of Orange County on Magnolia Street.
Greeting them is a phalanx of “Yes on 8″ signs - a veritable fence, actually - with that gleeful traditional family throwing its arms in the air in elation.
The plain and sober “VOTE” sign, denoting an official polling place, is at the end of said phalanx. (Our reporter, Jessica Terrell, took these photos.)
It struck even some Yes on 8 supporters - who’d like a ban on gay marriage - as odd, “It’s a little excessive. I don’t know what they were trying to prove with all those signs. I don’t think there was a need for them,” said a voter who declined to give her name.
Are those signs OK? We asked the Orange County Registrar of Voters.
Yes, they are, so long as the signs are at least 100 feet from the entrance to the poll site, said Brett Rowley, Registrar spokesman (who sounded a wee bit harried).
The entrance to the polling place was around the back of the church, and the signs were along the street in front of the church, so all appears well.
But at least one other church chose not to wear its heart on its sleeve. At Sea Coast Grace Church in Cypress, staffers removed Prop. 8 signs this morning. “We wanted our campus to be a neutral environment for people not to be hassled,” said Cody Surratt, a pastor.
Prop. 8, obviously, elicits a great deal of passion. Longtime Republican activist Kenneth Fisher reports that about 10 Yes on 8 signs that sprouted at the corner of Bixby and Brookhurst in Garden Grove were destroyed overnight.
Reports of vandalized signs have been furiously reported by both sides. Honestly. Can’t we all just get along?
Voters in Westminster’s Precinct 003941 perform their civic duty today at the Christian Reform Church of Orange County on Magnolia Street.
Greeting them is a phalanx of “Yes on 8″ signs - a veritable fence, actually - with that gleeful traditional family throwing its arms in the air in elation.
The plain and sober “VOTE” sign, denoting an official polling place, is at the end of said phalanx. (Our reporter, Jessica Terrell, took these photos.)
It struck even some Yes on 8 supporters - who’d like a ban on gay marriage - as odd, “It’s a little excessive. I don’t know what they were trying to prove with all those signs. I don’t think there was a need for them,” said a voter who declined to give her name.
Are those signs OK? We asked the Orange County Registrar of Voters.
Yes, they are, so long as the signs are at least 100 feet from the entrance to the poll site, said Brett Rowley, Registrar spokesman (who sounded a wee bit harried).
The entrance to the polling place was around the back of the church, and the signs were along the street in front of the church, so all appears well.
But at least one other church chose not to wear its heart on its sleeve. At Sea Coast Grace Church in Cypress, staffers removed Prop. 8 signs this morning. “We wanted our campus to be a neutral environment for people not to be hassled,” said Cody Surratt, a pastor.
Prop. 8, obviously, elicits a great deal of passion. Longtime Republican activist Kenneth Fisher reports that about 10 Yes on 8 signs that sprouted at the corner of Bixby and Brookhurst in Garden Grove were destroyed overnight.
Reports of vandalized signs have been furiously reported by both sides. Honestly. Can’t we all just get along?
Why Prop 8 Will Fail
By David Salter | Article Date: 11/04/2008 12:02 AM
In a few days, America will see the beginning of a new era, and California will see the new era it gloriously began almost five months ago allowed to continue. Barring some unforeseen and tremendous act of external destruction, Barack Obama will be the next President of the United States, and California's Proposition 8 will fail.
This is not cockeyed optimism talking, but rather the result of analysis of prognosticating and historical lessons both clear and unheralded.
Forget everything you've heard about the national polls. This close to the election the only thing that matters is that little map of splotches of red and slathered layers of blue that can be found on sites from realclearpolitics.com to latimes.com and beyond. The former puts 259 electoral votes solidly in Obama's column, not to mention 47 leaning, making a grand total of 306. That's over 35 points above the needed number to win on Tuesday, and it's not even counting 75 toss-up electoral votes.
If Obama carries either of the two major states leaning his way (Virginia or Ohio), he wins. If he gets even one of the toss-up states of Florida, North Carolina, Indiana or Missouri, he wins. If he prevails in Colorado and New Mexico, he wins. John McCain needs to win not just one or two, but every single one of those states to win. McCain's home state of Arizona isn't even solid for the Republicans: its ten electoral votes are merely leaning his way as of seven days before the election.
Obama wins.
Take a look at what this means, Californians: three of the states that would solidify an Obama victory are in the eastern time zone, where polls close at 5pm California time. Three more will close their voting booths at six. And if Virginia or Ohio goes blue early on, that's two to three hours that the news media will have to trumpet Obama's victory before our polls even close. And that's not even taking into account the effect of exit polls, which will begin showing Obama's strong victories possibly before we even hit the snooze button in the morning.
So what on earth does this have to do with California's Proposition 8, which would rewrite the state constitution to eliminate any marriage that is not heterosexual?
USC law professor and long-time political commentator and campaign strategist Susan Estrich likened a blowout election to a USC football game. If someone with a crystal ball told the rabid Trojan fans that the team was going to win against UCLA, would fans still show up?
If you root for the Cardinal and Gold, you betcha. If your colors run closer to baby blue, you may, however, stay home with a good book. Nobody wants to be on the losing team, or worse yet, witness the carnage, especially when you know how it's going to turn out. This isn't a horror movie, although sometimes it doesn't feel too far removed.
Those of us too young to remember the presidential elections of the 1980s are probably not as familiar with the concept of what are known as “down-ticket races,” which are essentially those that occupy every page of the ballot that does not say “President” somewhere on it.
What a lot of people fail to remember is that all those other check boxes add up to mean just as much if not more to one's daily life than the choice between Obama and McCain. The entire U.S. House of Representatives is up for election or re-election, as well as a third of the Senate, not to mention state legislatures and governors who, as we have certainly seen in California, can have a larger impact on their constituents' daily lives than the hoo-has back in the Capitol building 3000 miles away.
And then there are the ballot initiatives. Sure, the local, state and federal legislatures can discuss or pass bill after bill all they want but when was the last time you saw something happen that affected you right then, that moment, without weeks, months or years of appeals, vetoes, filibusters or delayed implementation? No, the way to get something done here and now is to put it on a ballot and have the people decide. And in most cases this is an opportunity to right a legislative wrong, to offer hope to the future in a bond measure, or to otherwise add a bit of hope and, yes, change to the world we live in every day.
Every once in a while, though, someone or some group decides to use the process to reverse the process: in essence, to wrong a right. California's Proposition 8 is the most ominous because while Arizona's and Florida's similar ballot measures attempt to deny rights that have not as yet been found to exist (although they inevitably do) in their respective constitutions, Proposition 8 is a reaction to the recent and long overdue enforcement of that right by basically wiping it out of the constitution once and for all.
But it won't work, and it isn't necessarily because people want gay marriage.
Sure, out-of-state interests, particularly the Utah-based Mormon church, are pouring money in by the millions to pass the proposition. Sure, misleading but effectively frightening ads seem to run constantly on television, radio and YouTube. Sure, Sarah Palin said she'd support a federal ban on gay marriage.
But Sarah Palin doesn't vote in California. The elders of the Mormon church and their countless members from Utah don't vote in California. Joe the Plumber does not vote in California.
Those who so vehemently oppose gay marriage do not have the numbers of those who vehemently support it. If every eligible voter in California went to the polls on Tuesday, Proposition 8 would probably pass, not because people hate gay marriage so much but because most people would just as soon not have to deal with it.
But on Tuesday, as the talking heads begin shouting about Obama's landslide victory (and it will be a landslide, based on every evidence available, unless there is something very sinister and wrong with America that is hiding just beyond the pollsters' radar) with three hours left for Californians to vote, something strange will happen. A good deal of those who would have preferred McCain, or would have preferred a world without gay marriage, will likely go about their lives and skip the lines at the voting booth just as California Democrats did in 1980, 1984, and 1988, even though that meant that solidly Democratic federal Congressional seats went red against all odds. What fun is it to vote for the guy who already lost?
The reverse effect, however, is also a possibility, despite Estrich's analogy. It cannot, and must not happen, by any means. No matter how far ahead Obama is when Californians get off work at five or six in the evening, every single person who cares about equality, about stopping the legislation of hate, about the future of California and, by example, the rest of the country, must go out to mark the bubble for No on Proposition 8.
And then it will truly be the beginning of a glorious new era.
In a few days, America will see the beginning of a new era, and California will see the new era it gloriously began almost five months ago allowed to continue. Barring some unforeseen and tremendous act of external destruction, Barack Obama will be the next President of the United States, and California's Proposition 8 will fail.
This is not cockeyed optimism talking, but rather the result of analysis of prognosticating and historical lessons both clear and unheralded.
Forget everything you've heard about the national polls. This close to the election the only thing that matters is that little map of splotches of red and slathered layers of blue that can be found on sites from realclearpolitics.com to latimes.com and beyond. The former puts 259 electoral votes solidly in Obama's column, not to mention 47 leaning, making a grand total of 306. That's over 35 points above the needed number to win on Tuesday, and it's not even counting 75 toss-up electoral votes.
If Obama carries either of the two major states leaning his way (Virginia or Ohio), he wins. If he gets even one of the toss-up states of Florida, North Carolina, Indiana or Missouri, he wins. If he prevails in Colorado and New Mexico, he wins. John McCain needs to win not just one or two, but every single one of those states to win. McCain's home state of Arizona isn't even solid for the Republicans: its ten electoral votes are merely leaning his way as of seven days before the election.
Obama wins.
Take a look at what this means, Californians: three of the states that would solidify an Obama victory are in the eastern time zone, where polls close at 5pm California time. Three more will close their voting booths at six. And if Virginia or Ohio goes blue early on, that's two to three hours that the news media will have to trumpet Obama's victory before our polls even close. And that's not even taking into account the effect of exit polls, which will begin showing Obama's strong victories possibly before we even hit the snooze button in the morning.
So what on earth does this have to do with California's Proposition 8, which would rewrite the state constitution to eliminate any marriage that is not heterosexual?
USC law professor and long-time political commentator and campaign strategist Susan Estrich likened a blowout election to a USC football game. If someone with a crystal ball told the rabid Trojan fans that the team was going to win against UCLA, would fans still show up?
If you root for the Cardinal and Gold, you betcha. If your colors run closer to baby blue, you may, however, stay home with a good book. Nobody wants to be on the losing team, or worse yet, witness the carnage, especially when you know how it's going to turn out. This isn't a horror movie, although sometimes it doesn't feel too far removed.
Those of us too young to remember the presidential elections of the 1980s are probably not as familiar with the concept of what are known as “down-ticket races,” which are essentially those that occupy every page of the ballot that does not say “President” somewhere on it.
What a lot of people fail to remember is that all those other check boxes add up to mean just as much if not more to one's daily life than the choice between Obama and McCain. The entire U.S. House of Representatives is up for election or re-election, as well as a third of the Senate, not to mention state legislatures and governors who, as we have certainly seen in California, can have a larger impact on their constituents' daily lives than the hoo-has back in the Capitol building 3000 miles away.
And then there are the ballot initiatives. Sure, the local, state and federal legislatures can discuss or pass bill after bill all they want but when was the last time you saw something happen that affected you right then, that moment, without weeks, months or years of appeals, vetoes, filibusters or delayed implementation? No, the way to get something done here and now is to put it on a ballot and have the people decide. And in most cases this is an opportunity to right a legislative wrong, to offer hope to the future in a bond measure, or to otherwise add a bit of hope and, yes, change to the world we live in every day.
Every once in a while, though, someone or some group decides to use the process to reverse the process: in essence, to wrong a right. California's Proposition 8 is the most ominous because while Arizona's and Florida's similar ballot measures attempt to deny rights that have not as yet been found to exist (although they inevitably do) in their respective constitutions, Proposition 8 is a reaction to the recent and long overdue enforcement of that right by basically wiping it out of the constitution once and for all.
But it won't work, and it isn't necessarily because people want gay marriage.
Sure, out-of-state interests, particularly the Utah-based Mormon church, are pouring money in by the millions to pass the proposition. Sure, misleading but effectively frightening ads seem to run constantly on television, radio and YouTube. Sure, Sarah Palin said she'd support a federal ban on gay marriage.
But Sarah Palin doesn't vote in California. The elders of the Mormon church and their countless members from Utah don't vote in California. Joe the Plumber does not vote in California.
Those who so vehemently oppose gay marriage do not have the numbers of those who vehemently support it. If every eligible voter in California went to the polls on Tuesday, Proposition 8 would probably pass, not because people hate gay marriage so much but because most people would just as soon not have to deal with it.
But on Tuesday, as the talking heads begin shouting about Obama's landslide victory (and it will be a landslide, based on every evidence available, unless there is something very sinister and wrong with America that is hiding just beyond the pollsters' radar) with three hours left for Californians to vote, something strange will happen. A good deal of those who would have preferred McCain, or would have preferred a world without gay marriage, will likely go about their lives and skip the lines at the voting booth just as California Democrats did in 1980, 1984, and 1988, even though that meant that solidly Democratic federal Congressional seats went red against all odds. What fun is it to vote for the guy who already lost?
The reverse effect, however, is also a possibility, despite Estrich's analogy. It cannot, and must not happen, by any means. No matter how far ahead Obama is when Californians get off work at five or six in the evening, every single person who cares about equality, about stopping the legislation of hate, about the future of California and, by example, the rest of the country, must go out to mark the bubble for No on Proposition 8.
And then it will truly be the beginning of a glorious new era.
No on 8 Volunteers Not Giving Up in Bakersfield
It’s about 7:30 a.m. in Bakersfield, Calif., and the skies are clearing after an overnight rain. I’m standing in the parking lot at the Kern County Fairgrounds with Juan Cerda, a 24-year-old volunteer with the No on 8 campaign. A budget analyst for Kern County, the born-and-raised Bakersfield boy has taken the day off to make sure No on 8 has a presence as voters walk into the polling place.
The fairgrounds’ Harvest Hall building, a simple corrugated-metal structure, is the location for 14 voting precincts in east Bakersfield, the predominantly working-class and Democratic leaning-area of the city of over 310,000. Located about two hours northeast of Los Angeles, in California’s agriculturally dominant (and notoriously conservative, culturally) Central Valley, Bakersfield is ground zero for Yes on 8 support.
“It’s my community here,” Cerda says as a steady stream of voters pull in and out of the parking lot. Earlier that morning a polling official came outside and measured out 100 feet from the entrance of Harvest Hall for Cerda and his volunteers. “We’re fine up until the grass,” he explained, pointing out a median splitting the parking lot from a lane of traffic in front of the hall.
Cerda thinks that this is the best place in town to make an impact, since he estimates 3% of the vote on Proposition 8 is still undecided. He and his volunteers have been milling about the parking lot, gently handing out No on 8 flyers and encouraging voters to vote no.
“There are a percentage of supporters who are confused about what a 'no' vote means,” he said. “We want to make sure we are minimizing that wrong voting.”
So far the turnout of volunteers has been good. Besides five or six volunteers in the parking lot, another three or four people stand outside the parking lot, waving a variety of homemade and official No on 8 signs.
“I’m expecting about 15 people today -- some people all day, some for a couple hours,” he said. “But I’d really like to have at least 20.” (Christopher Lisotta, The Advocate)
The fairgrounds’ Harvest Hall building, a simple corrugated-metal structure, is the location for 14 voting precincts in east Bakersfield, the predominantly working-class and Democratic leaning-area of the city of over 310,000. Located about two hours northeast of Los Angeles, in California’s agriculturally dominant (and notoriously conservative, culturally) Central Valley, Bakersfield is ground zero for Yes on 8 support.
“It’s my community here,” Cerda says as a steady stream of voters pull in and out of the parking lot. Earlier that morning a polling official came outside and measured out 100 feet from the entrance of Harvest Hall for Cerda and his volunteers. “We’re fine up until the grass,” he explained, pointing out a median splitting the parking lot from a lane of traffic in front of the hall.
Cerda thinks that this is the best place in town to make an impact, since he estimates 3% of the vote on Proposition 8 is still undecided. He and his volunteers have been milling about the parking lot, gently handing out No on 8 flyers and encouraging voters to vote no.
“There are a percentage of supporters who are confused about what a 'no' vote means,” he said. “We want to make sure we are minimizing that wrong voting.”
So far the turnout of volunteers has been good. Besides five or six volunteers in the parking lot, another three or four people stand outside the parking lot, waving a variety of homemade and official No on 8 signs.
“I’m expecting about 15 people today -- some people all day, some for a couple hours,” he said. “But I’d really like to have at least 20.” (Christopher Lisotta, The Advocate)
No on 8 Dispatches 3,200 Volunteers Across California
Polls in California have been open for more than six hours, and in areas of the state with dense LGBT populations, voters are reportedly waiting three hours in line, and their wait is getting longer.
In Los Angeles, No on 8 is handing out flyers to potential voters urging them to vote No on 8 because it’s “unfair” and “wrong” – and because Barack Obama, Dianne Feinstein and Arnold Schwarzenegger all oppose the proposition.
Nowhere on the flyer does it say anything about the gay community. It simply tells voters that it is “wrong to eliminate fundamental rights.”
Volunteers for No on 8 are blanketing the city to get the word out. In more traditionally conservative areas including San Diego and the Central Valley, some are the only volunteers in their area on hand to persuade people to vote against the proposition.
In Los Angeles, LA Gay and Lesbian Center CEO Lorri Jean received word that a school principal was chasing No on 8 volunteers away from poling places and ripping up No on 8 signs. LAPD was called and sent a reminder to poling places that No on 8 is allowed to have volunteers hand out literature so long as they stayed more than 100 feet away from the polls.
In Pico Rivera, no official Yes on 8 people seem to be campaigning near the polls… but a few people are lingering near poling places “damning” gay souls and yelling religious rhetoric at voters (below). According to reports from the scene, about 20-percent of voters are uninformed on Prop. 8.
San Diego, a hotbed of controversy surrounding Proposition 8, continues to be divided over the issue of gay marriage. Qualcomm Stadium was one-third filled over the weekend with people praying that Prop. 8 would pass. Just a mile away, at the same time, some 6,000 people held a candlelight vigil in support of same-sex marriage.
On the outskirts of the city, front lawns are filled with Yes on 8 signs.
According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, throughout the city, polling places are reporting that Yes on 8 people have come within 100-feet of poling places.
Stephanie Colter, a teacher from Bay Park, told the Tribune Yes on 8 signs were placed outside her poling place at the First Baptist Church in Bay Park -- right next to the signs directing voters inside.
“They're all over the parking lot,” Colter said. “I'm really upset. They shouldn't be a polling place if they want to do that.”
The look is similar just an hour north in Orange County, which is expected to play host to a Yes on 8 victory party should the proposition pass.
Expectedly, in West Hollywood, where the bulk of the No on 8 efforts have taken place, the scene is encouraging.
At LA’s Gay and Lesbian Center, volunteers are crammed into the “war room.” The campaign is dispatching volunteers all over Southern California and fielding reports of any problems from poling places. According to Center Public Affairs Officer Jim Key, more than 3,200 volunteers are on the ground around the state.
Around the city, Yes on 8 signs are nowhere to be seen and though lines are long, people are waiting.
“If it were just the presidency, I’d probably leave,” one voter told Advocate.com. “But because of Prop. 8, I have to stay – it’s too important. My boss can wait.” (Ross von Metzke, The Advocate)
In Los Angeles, No on 8 is handing out flyers to potential voters urging them to vote No on 8 because it’s “unfair” and “wrong” – and because Barack Obama, Dianne Feinstein and Arnold Schwarzenegger all oppose the proposition.
Nowhere on the flyer does it say anything about the gay community. It simply tells voters that it is “wrong to eliminate fundamental rights.”
Volunteers for No on 8 are blanketing the city to get the word out. In more traditionally conservative areas including San Diego and the Central Valley, some are the only volunteers in their area on hand to persuade people to vote against the proposition.
In Los Angeles, LA Gay and Lesbian Center CEO Lorri Jean received word that a school principal was chasing No on 8 volunteers away from poling places and ripping up No on 8 signs. LAPD was called and sent a reminder to poling places that No on 8 is allowed to have volunteers hand out literature so long as they stayed more than 100 feet away from the polls.
In Pico Rivera, no official Yes on 8 people seem to be campaigning near the polls… but a few people are lingering near poling places “damning” gay souls and yelling religious rhetoric at voters (below). According to reports from the scene, about 20-percent of voters are uninformed on Prop. 8.
San Diego, a hotbed of controversy surrounding Proposition 8, continues to be divided over the issue of gay marriage. Qualcomm Stadium was one-third filled over the weekend with people praying that Prop. 8 would pass. Just a mile away, at the same time, some 6,000 people held a candlelight vigil in support of same-sex marriage.
On the outskirts of the city, front lawns are filled with Yes on 8 signs.
According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, throughout the city, polling places are reporting that Yes on 8 people have come within 100-feet of poling places.
Stephanie Colter, a teacher from Bay Park, told the Tribune Yes on 8 signs were placed outside her poling place at the First Baptist Church in Bay Park -- right next to the signs directing voters inside.
“They're all over the parking lot,” Colter said. “I'm really upset. They shouldn't be a polling place if they want to do that.”
The look is similar just an hour north in Orange County, which is expected to play host to a Yes on 8 victory party should the proposition pass.
Expectedly, in West Hollywood, where the bulk of the No on 8 efforts have taken place, the scene is encouraging.
At LA’s Gay and Lesbian Center, volunteers are crammed into the “war room.” The campaign is dispatching volunteers all over Southern California and fielding reports of any problems from poling places. According to Center Public Affairs Officer Jim Key, more than 3,200 volunteers are on the ground around the state.
Around the city, Yes on 8 signs are nowhere to be seen and though lines are long, people are waiting.
“If it were just the presidency, I’d probably leave,” one voter told Advocate.com. “But because of Prop. 8, I have to stay – it’s too important. My boss can wait.” (Ross von Metzke, The Advocate)
Henry Rollins Stands Up Against Prop. 8
Henry Rollins has never been one to shy away from controversy. On the eve of Election Day, the outspoken singer-comedian-activist speaks out against Proposition 8, touts Barack Obama, tells the Pat Robertsons and Sarah Palins of the world to go back to the Stone Age, and urges LGBT people to "never relent."
By Greg Archer
An Advocate.com exclusive posted November 3, 2008
In this high-stakes political season, there’s certainly many a “man” to enrage. Just before Election Day, Rollins, the unabashed author-musician-radio personality and Grammy-winning spoken word artist, fiercely opines about all things political with Advocate.com. He also joins the ranks of high-profile celebs -- including Ellen DeGeneres and Brad Pitt -- who are speaking out against Proposition 8, one of the most highly contested issues on the California ballot, which would ban same-sex unions in the state.
Advocate.com: Why is it important for you to speak out against Prop. 8?
Henry Rollins: I think it’s incumbent on any sane Californian to vote against any kind of hate against any human being. When you get down to it, [Prop. 8] comes from some very hateful, ignorant beliefs. It’s not coming from anything that makes any sense. It’s nasty and un-American, really. Anybody that respects life and people’s freedoms, Democrat, Republican, it should not matter. And it makes me angry that people spent money outside of California to try to bedevil this thing. It’s just appalling. But in this day and age, I am not surprised.
Were you familiar with the Briggs Initiative [California’s Prop. 6], 30 years ago, which basically set out to fire homosexual teachers?
I remember that, and also Anita Bryant being homophobic. I grew up in Washington, D.C., and there was a significant gay population, and in school, by the time we all hit puberty, we saw that we had gay classmates. The way I was raised, I just didn’t care. Whatever you were, you were. Next topic, you know? I never understood homophobia. I always thought it was restricted to idiots -- dumb-ass boys in high school. But when I saw Anita Bryant, I went, "Wow! So much for America, land of the free, home of the courageous."
It’s great to hear you speak out against Prop. 8, but you’ve always been outspoken, no?
It’s all about where I come from; the country I am in. I think when I work I feel like maybe Thomas Jefferson is tapping me on the shoulder and leading me on. But I think for people who'd like to get married, I say, "Best of luck." But for me, I just think all marriage is a completely unreal and unbelievable, really. To say I have to split everything in half if something didn’t work out ... it doesn’t really work for my Ramones collection, you know?
What are you most excited about in 2009?
Well, I would like to see a different kind of administration in the White House. I think if we’ve seen one thing about this election, it’s knowing that Republicans cheat. And I am not that old politically, but I do remember when a Republican and Democrat could make a few talking points and address their differences. But the argument was never about anything you felt like you wanted to punch the guy’s lights out about. And it’s descended into this thing where we see McCain so desperate now. It’s just so fuckin’ sad. The more I learn about McCain, the more there is not to like, as far as I am concerned. But I get the sense from him that maybe he’s thinking, Man, I didn’t want it to go this way. He says one thing and does another. He’s not a maverick -- at all. And so you can see how he is coming across in this campaign and how Obama, who is running against him, has a level of decency. And I want the decency back. I want the polarity in this country between Republicans and Democrats to back off.
It has been one of the most contentious races.
And all this "Watch out for the scary black man!" It’s all bullshit. It’s awful. It’s just playing guilt and bringing hell back into the great American discourse. It’s something that has brought in millions of dollars from the religious right in the last eight years. I want all this to change. I want all the Pat Robertsons to go back the fuck to the cave they came from and take their hostages with them. And I want science to come back to the fore. That’s what I am hoping to have happen in the next four years.
By Greg Archer
An Advocate.com exclusive posted November 3, 2008
In this high-stakes political season, there’s certainly many a “man” to enrage. Just before Election Day, Rollins, the unabashed author-musician-radio personality and Grammy-winning spoken word artist, fiercely opines about all things political with Advocate.com. He also joins the ranks of high-profile celebs -- including Ellen DeGeneres and Brad Pitt -- who are speaking out against Proposition 8, one of the most highly contested issues on the California ballot, which would ban same-sex unions in the state.
Advocate.com: Why is it important for you to speak out against Prop. 8?
Henry Rollins: I think it’s incumbent on any sane Californian to vote against any kind of hate against any human being. When you get down to it, [Prop. 8] comes from some very hateful, ignorant beliefs. It’s not coming from anything that makes any sense. It’s nasty and un-American, really. Anybody that respects life and people’s freedoms, Democrat, Republican, it should not matter. And it makes me angry that people spent money outside of California to try to bedevil this thing. It’s just appalling. But in this day and age, I am not surprised.
Were you familiar with the Briggs Initiative [California’s Prop. 6], 30 years ago, which basically set out to fire homosexual teachers?
I remember that, and also Anita Bryant being homophobic. I grew up in Washington, D.C., and there was a significant gay population, and in school, by the time we all hit puberty, we saw that we had gay classmates. The way I was raised, I just didn’t care. Whatever you were, you were. Next topic, you know? I never understood homophobia. I always thought it was restricted to idiots -- dumb-ass boys in high school. But when I saw Anita Bryant, I went, "Wow! So much for America, land of the free, home of the courageous."
It’s great to hear you speak out against Prop. 8, but you’ve always been outspoken, no?
It’s all about where I come from; the country I am in. I think when I work I feel like maybe Thomas Jefferson is tapping me on the shoulder and leading me on. But I think for people who'd like to get married, I say, "Best of luck." But for me, I just think all marriage is a completely unreal and unbelievable, really. To say I have to split everything in half if something didn’t work out ... it doesn’t really work for my Ramones collection, you know?
What are you most excited about in 2009?
Well, I would like to see a different kind of administration in the White House. I think if we’ve seen one thing about this election, it’s knowing that Republicans cheat. And I am not that old politically, but I do remember when a Republican and Democrat could make a few talking points and address their differences. But the argument was never about anything you felt like you wanted to punch the guy’s lights out about. And it’s descended into this thing where we see McCain so desperate now. It’s just so fuckin’ sad. The more I learn about McCain, the more there is not to like, as far as I am concerned. But I get the sense from him that maybe he’s thinking, Man, I didn’t want it to go this way. He says one thing and does another. He’s not a maverick -- at all. And so you can see how he is coming across in this campaign and how Obama, who is running against him, has a level of decency. And I want the decency back. I want the polarity in this country between Republicans and Democrats to back off.
It has been one of the most contentious races.
And all this "Watch out for the scary black man!" It’s all bullshit. It’s awful. It’s just playing guilt and bringing hell back into the great American discourse. It’s something that has brought in millions of dollars from the religious right in the last eight years. I want all this to change. I want all the Pat Robertsons to go back the fuck to the cave they came from and take their hostages with them. And I want science to come back to the fore. That’s what I am hoping to have happen in the next four years.
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